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Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

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Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#31

Post by ar-jan »

Pigo wrote: post #10
firasd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some sympathy for Paramount in this. First the social-​justice types went after them for not casting an Asian lead, then the critic reviews were unkind, then it really under-performed at the box office, and now people are upset about the music not being released… Some marketing exec over there is probably like “I don’t want to hear about GITS anymore, ever!”

Let me first say that I'm one of the last people anyone would call a SJW. I subscribe to Gavin McInnes and Milo Yiannopoulos on YouTube. But replacing the Major and Batou with white people bothered me. It's not that I think it's wrong. But it was distracting for me, and got the whole thing off on the wrong foot with fanboys who would have been the primary audience. What if they casted Gandalf as some Indian guy? Or r…

I think it's reasonable to object to the casting, especially for those who enjoyed the originals. People form an emotional attachment to stories.

What I find striking in this whole culture wars thing is how asymetrical it is: there's no principles, it's always white/western people being wrong (well, I suppose that's a principle too). Example: when fans of Stephen King's The Dark Tower objected to casting a black actor for the white gunslinger, these same people who complain about white-washing called the objecting people racists and what not. They even went as far as stating that it was only in the fans' minds that the gunslinger was white, that he could equally well have been black, thereby betraying that they'd never even read the series.

Personally, I enjoyed Ghost in the Shell despite its flaws, and I'm pretty sure I'm also going to enjoy The Dark Tower, despite the fact that it's radically changing a central part of the plot of the books.

Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#32

Post by chiph »

Tehnix wrote: post #9
chiph wrote: post #2

Not the first mistake the studio made with this film.

I'm curios to hear if you have any specific critics. I actually quite liked the movie, once you get over the fact that you are comparing it to the original anime, and the new elements it brought in, despite it being a bit too much dumbed down for hollywood audience. I also never understood the SJW critics of white washing it, and it was in fact mostly white hollywood people that got offended. The Japanese themselves…

I ended up walking out about halfway through it. I had no problems with the casting (I though Scarlet did a good job), and the visual effects were stunning. It was the writing and plot that weren't good. I found it missing all the implied sub-plots (it was overly simple - as you said - dumbed down).

I also found myself missing the interludes from the animated film. The scenes with the canals, the jet passing overhead between the buildings. They all had a beauty to them and they let you reflect on what happened in the previous scene. This film proceeded too quickly from one scene to another, likely because the studio was afraid people would get bored if something wasn't happening every single moment.

Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#33

Post by Pigo »

ar-jan wrote: post #31
Pigo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me first say that I'm one of the last people anyone would call a SJW. I subscribe to Gavin McInnes and Milo Yiannopoulos on YouTube. But replacing the Major and Batou with white people bothered me. It's not that I think it's wrong. But it was distracting for me, and got the whole thing off on the wrong foot with fanboys who would have been the primary audience. What if they casted Gandalf as some Indian guy? Or r…

I think it's reasonable to object to the casting, especially for those who enjoyed the originals. People form an emotional attachment to stories. What I find striking in this whole culture wars thing is how asymetrical it is: there's no principles, it's always white/western people being wrong (well, I suppose that's a principle too). Example: when fans of Stephen King's The Dark Tower objected to casting a black acto…

Well, like I said. For me it's not a matter of what's right or wrong, just the fucking with of characters that I care about because the same Hollywood stars in every other movie have to be in this one too. I grow tired of the monotony.

The Gun Slinger was definitely white in the long series of comic books which Stephen King helped create, so I'm not sure how anyone can say that it was just in their minds. But any adaptation of a epic series of novels into a couple hours of film is going to have to change drastically anyways. And I'm usually excited to see Idris Elba in something. GITS was already in movie format, and the core of the story could have been done justice.

Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#34

Post by anotheryou »

humanrebar wrote: post #29
CivilianZero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the "love", you've hit exactly on why I dislike the movie. I don't care who they cast or recast if they would just get the point of the story, but western media has no concept of how to do a proper narrative about identity and can't accept any story involving technology that isn't bemoaning it and "exposing" how dangerous it is to us and society as a whole. In other words, western media becomes a drooling…

> ...western media has no concept of how to do a proper narrative about identity... I must be misunderstanding your complaint, because it seems that everyone's favorite metaplot is about identity these days. Off the top of my head: - Frozen: choosing own future and identity over what was given you - Dark Knight: projecting an inaccurate identity to protect people - Zootopia: overcoming prejudice by breaking glass cei…

Westworld is a really interesting thing. They partly live from what they (ironically?) criticise: Boobs and Gore for entertainment. Incerdibly well made though, I hope the "us against them" of machine and humans will blur a bit further.

Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#35

Post by firasd »

chiph wrote: post #32
Tehnix wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curios to hear if you have any specific critics. I actually quite liked the movie, once you get over the fact that you are comparing it to the original anime, and the new elements it brought in, despite it being a bit too much dumbed down for hollywood audience. I also never understood the SJW critics of white washing it, and it was in fact mostly white hollywood people that got offended. The Japanese themselves…

I ended up walking out about halfway through it. I had no problems with the casting (I though Scarlet did a good job), and the visual effects were stunning. It was the writing and plot that weren't good. I found it missing all the implied sub-plots (it was overly simple - as you said - dumbed down). I also found myself missing the interludes from the animated film. The scenes with the canals, the jet passing overhead…

I agree, I was actually hoping the montage where she walks around the city with no dialog would be in the movie. Even without that, it felt like they rushed the tempo and deleted scenes. But: I also saw casual viewers say the movie was boring, they were falling asleep in the theater, etc. So it seems like GITS 17 tried (and failed) to balance to be a Hollywood blockbuster and GITS at the same time.

Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#37

Post by antisthenes »

anotheryou wrote: post #6
firasd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some sympathy for Paramount in this. First the social-​justice types went after them for not casting an Asian lead, then the critic reviews were unkind, then it really under-performed at the box office, and now people are upset about the music not being released… Some marketing exec over there is probably like “I don’t want to hear about GITS anymore, ever!”

No sympathy whatsoever. They kinda inverted the main plot. SPOILERS AHEAD: What they made: A (slightly technophobic) very human and involentary cyborg fighting for humanity and letting the equally human anti-hero die to keep on fighting for the human race against digitalization and greedy other humans. Also: strange human trafficking sob-story. What it was: The first cyborg without any human tissue remaining fighting…

A good summary. The original and the movie have nothing in common aside from the setting and some character names.

The visuals were amazing, but the movie might as well have been named "cyborgs in hong kong".

Re: Ghost in the Shell Original Soundtrack mystery

#38

Post by CivilianZero »

humanrebar wrote: post #29
CivilianZero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the "love", you've hit exactly on why I dislike the movie. I don't care who they cast or recast if they would just get the point of the story, but western media has no concept of how to do a proper narrative about identity and can't accept any story involving technology that isn't bemoaning it and "exposing" how dangerous it is to us and society as a whole. In other words, western media becomes a drooling…

> ...western media has no concept of how to do a proper narrative about identity... I must be misunderstanding your complaint, because it seems that everyone's favorite metaplot is about identity these days. Off the top of my head: - Frozen: choosing own future and identity over what was given you - Dark Knight: projecting an inaccurate identity to protect people - Zootopia: overcoming prejudice by breaking glass cei…

Just because it's their favorite, doesn't mean they do it well. Some of your examples are perfect for a surface look at identity. They focus on how our concept of identity affects our day to day life and how we can manipulate that to help or hurt. Others, like Frozen, really have little to nothing to do with identity and instead are that tired plot of "figuring out who I am" which, yeah that's kind of what identity is but it's not really looking at the concept of identity.

But that's not what GitS is about.

I'm referring to a more philosophical approach, even an abstract one. GitS specifically is looks at identity as a malleable thing. To a "western audience", in the original film, The Major is no longer The Major at the end. Or at least, they'd be reassured by her familiar voice and reassure themselves that it really is still her and they haven't lost their protagonist. "Well, she sounds the same and seems to act the same, must be the same person."

This is again a very surface look at identity. I'm not saying this is bad subject material or even wrong, but it gets very old when every movie throws in you face how deep and interesting they are because they're about "identity" when really they're just about "stuff people do in situations" or applying a rigid concept of identity to some character's struggles.

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