How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout • Hacker News Board

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#21

Post by flukus » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:23 AM UTC

i336_ wrote: post #13

flukus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was the driving force behind a home-insulation scheme that was found to be the cause of 224 house fires. House fires went down statistically. The absolute number of fires was higher because more homes were getting insulation, but fires per insulated home went down. The real cause is business efficiency, hiring cheaper workers and not training them properly. You can't hold the government responsible for every grunt…

>> was the driving force behind a home-insulation scheme that was found to be the cause of 224 house fires. > House fires went down statistically. The absolute number of fires was higher because more homes were getting insulation, but fires per insulated home went down. Oh. I didn't know that. So you mean this occurred after the installation...? > The real cause is business efficiency, hiring cheaper workers and not…

The fires occur after the installation, 50% occur within 10 days of installation, here is a very long and detailed analysis (with some CSIRO analysis as well): https://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/04/24/the-csiro-g...

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#22

Post by shakna » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:24 AM UTC

craigvn wrote: post #17

As an Australian, I think it can be summed up by two reasons. 1. All large scale infrastructure rollouts are difficult and subject to problems and blowouts. 2. It was made a political issue. New government decided to make major revamps for no reason other than it was different to the previous government so they could use it as an election issue.

> All large scale infrastructure rollouts are difficult and subject to problems and blowouts.

Some of the utter incompetence involved in the actual rollout was astounding.

Telstra's crews had to reinstall the lines under the main road of my town 4 times.

Twice it was installed on the wrong side of the road, and once it was unshielded.

6 months of traffic jams instead of 1 month.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#23

Post by shard972 » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:28 AM UTC

craigvn wrote: post #17

As an Australian, I think it can be summed up by two reasons. 1. All large scale infrastructure rollouts are difficult and subject to problems and blowouts. 2. It was made a political issue. New government decided to make major revamps for no reason other than it was different to the previous government so they could use it as an election issue.

To say they changed it for no reason is omitting the state of the roll out at that time. The budget was already blowing out beyond 2x the cost, they were behind on their revised down goals, they missed wireless numbers by 90%.

The only positive thing they could tout at the time was pass by numbers which ignores the hardest part of the roll out, connecting fiber to each and every house.

You can argue that the last mile problem should have been tackled head on in the NBN and it was a mistake for the liberals to not, but to say that they did it for "no reason other than it was different to the previous government" is just simply wrong.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#24

Post by fliptables » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:31 AM UTC

znedw wrote: post #16

Currently I pay AUD$79 per month for the privilege of 1.4mbp/s down and 100kp/s up. My area is slated for the NBN, albiet HFC (using old coaxial) to commence building in 2019. Bloody bonza, mate.

I'd take HFC over FTTN. Last time I lived with DSL I enjoyed the same kind of speeds you're getting and three visits from Telstra minions came out to "sorry, nothing we can do". I'm in no hurry to play that phone-line lottery again.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#25

Post by i336_ » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:33 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #21

i336_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> was the driving force behind a home-insulation scheme that was found to be the cause of 224 house fires. > House fires went down statistically. The absolute number of fires was higher because more homes were getting insulation, but fires per insulated home went down. Oh. I didn't know that. So you mean this occurred after the installation...? > The real cause is business efficiency, hiring cheaper workers and not…

The fires occur after the installation, 50% occur within 10 days of installation, here is a very long and detailed analysis (with some CSIRO analysis as well): https://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/04/24/the-csiro-g...

Wow, this is great. Thanks for the link!

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#26

Post by d_t_w » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:34 AM UTC

Country is a basket case politically, lowest calibre of politician I have ever encountered. A profound paucity of talent across the board and absolutely no end in sight to the endless stupidity.

You can think of the shit infrastructure, crap attitude in general, and intellectually bankrupt waste that make up the political class as the many layers of tax on any high cognitive business in Australia.

Coal is the future apparently. Don't even get me started on the racists.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#27

Post by d_t_w » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:43 AM UTC

d_t_w wrote: post #26

Country is a basket case politically, lowest calibre of politician I have ever encountered. A profound paucity of talent across the board and absolutely no end in sight to the endless stupidity. You can think of the shit infrastructure, crap attitude in general, and intellectually bankrupt waste that make up the political class as the many layers of tax on any high cognitive business in Australia. Coal is the future…

Do you want to hear a funny joke by the Australian Prime Minister?

The "cartoon that united Australians" - Malcolm Turnbull, PM, 2017 (his comment, he's not the cartoonist)

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/53a5099c7991c37bb152ddf53...

Funny one, isn't it.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#28

Post by flukus » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:51 AM UTC

shard972 wrote: post #23

craigvn wrote: post #17

As an Australian, I think it can be summed up by two reasons. 1. All large scale infrastructure rollouts are difficult and subject to problems and blowouts. 2. It was made a political issue. New government decided to make major revamps for no reason other than it was different to the previous government so they could use it as an election issue.

To say they changed it for no reason is omitting the state of the roll out at that time. The budget was already blowing out beyond 2x the cost, they were behind on their revised down goals, they missed wireless numbers by 90%. The only positive thing they could tout at the time was pass by numbers which ignores the hardest part of the roll out, connecting fiber to each and every house. You can argue that the last mil…

> The budget was already blowing out beyond 2x the cost

According to partisan figures that were often repeated but never justified. I don't doubt it would have blown out, world class infrastructure would have been worth it at twice the cost. Instead we have the current NBN who's costs have blown out just as much to delivery 20th century infrastructure.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#29

Post by flukus » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:54 AM UTC

craigvn wrote: post #17

As an Australian, I think it can be summed up by two reasons. 1. All large scale infrastructure rollouts are difficult and subject to problems and blowouts. 2. It was made a political issue. New government decided to make major revamps for no reason other than it was different to the previous government so they could use it as an election issue.

> New government decided to make major revamps for no reason other than it was different to the previous government so they could use it as an election issue.

The worst part was the nationals. In 2007 they were bitching that it needed to be fiber, by 2010 they were saying copper is the future.

Re: How Australia Bungled Its $36B High-Speed Internet Rollout

#30

Post by stirlo » Fri, May 12, 2017, 5:56 AM UTC

The biggest issue with the whole project wasn't the abandoning of FTTP and move to MTM but the locking in of 2010 prices for the foreseeable future via a ridiculous CVC charge that only existed to turn a profit.

The founder of one of Australia's largest independent ISP's Internode (and later NBNco board member) Simon Hackett put it very well in 2011 where he showed locking in a arbitrary $20 charge per megabit hobbled the network.The whole profitability revolved around charging more for faster speeds/more data in the future.

Every other technological advance gave users faster for cheaper whereas this network would only work if people paid more. Cut to the future and now you've got competition from 4G cellular data at the low end and private companies providing private fibre/wireless networks at the top end. The whole pyramid is coming crashing down so much that the government has had to introduce a new broadband tax ($7.10 per month) to subsidize it.

And even the tax won't solve the problems because the CVC usage charge still exists and the business case still resolves around charging more in the future. In about 5 years when they realize what a stuff up it's been we can only help they write it all off and we can go back having affordable fast internet like the rest of the world.

https://simonhackett.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/commsday-w-...

https://blog.internode.on.net/2011/07/21/nbn-retail-pricing-...