A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system • Hacker News Board

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#491

Post by egypturnash » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:52 PM UTC

qb45 wrote: post #180

akhilcacharya wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh dear it thinks I'm a 35 year old woman...

It's AI, it knows you are secretly trans.

Now I kinda want to see what comes out if one gives a neural network a big pile of pre-transition photos of trans people, and another pile of similarly old photos of cis people. Would it be able to reliably predict if someone's likely to transition based on some subtle cues in the images?

Problematic parts: sourcing these images (I know there sure aren't many photos of pre-transition me, and I don't let the ones in my possession go much of anywhere), lots of ethical issues around having a system that can say "I am 97% sure this person is gonna want to transition". Also probably lots of other ethical issues I'm not thinking of.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#492

Post by ffriend » Thu, May 11, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

wcarron wrote: post #414

ffriend wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what's the boundary between ethical and unethical. People constantly analyze each other's mood and it's perceived positively. But doing the same thing massively using automated tools is often considered inappropriate. So is it because of using technology, massiveness, purposes? I hope there's a way to make such things both efficient and not unethical.

It is unethical because there's no "opt-out" option. You have taken a photo of me without my consent, used it for intents to increase profit despite not having my consent; and furthermore, attaching personal data to it is Orwellian and a complete invasion of my privacy. I can go out in public and have nobody know who I am. A retailer should not have access to my identity (since they can cross-reference other data set…

As far as I know, storing personal data - including photo, name, email and sometimes even IP address - without explicit and clear consent is strictly forbidden in most countries, at least in EU.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#493

Post by qb45 » Thu, May 11, 2017, 10:59 PM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #491

qb45 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's AI, it knows you are secretly trans.

Now I kinda want to see what comes out if one gives a neural network a big pile of pre-transition photos of trans people, and another pile of similarly old photos of cis people. Would it be able to reliably predict if someone's likely to transition based on some subtle cues in the images? Problematic parts: sourcing these images (I know there sure aren't many photos of pre-transition me, and I don't let the ones in m…

No idea, I wasn't really being serious, but what inspired me was a real case of a woman who somehow got identified as pregnant by her supermarket long before she was willing to tell anybody (I don't remember reasons) and they sent her some coupons or something and her family found out. Needless to say, she didn't appreciate.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#494

Post by dmitrygr » Thu, May 11, 2017, 11:22 PM UTC

beachbum8029 wrote: post #460

parhurs wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the point that in the "real world", social norms haven't yet adapted to the requirements of privacy (although you could also view it as societal norms allowing too much tracking). For example, if I wanted to use a mask to conceal my face from trackers, I would be ostracized. There are analogues in the virtual world of course, but it's usually harder in the physical world.

This also works http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Invisible-Face-Mask-/

some modern cams (at least traffic ones) no longer use AGC and will not be fooled by this

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#495

Post by wingworks » Thu, May 11, 2017, 11:30 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #448

_kb wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah, so this got a bit of interest. To be honest I'm a little surprised this seems to be news to the HN crowd. I feel a little bad about calling out one API provider specifically, so here's a bunch more: https://www.kairos.com/ https://skybiometry.com/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-service... http://www.affectiva.com/ http://www.crowdemotion.co.uk/ http://emovu.com/e/ https://www.faceplusplus.…

Amazon too: https://aws.amazon.com/rekognition/ Sentiment analysis for everyone!

Yep, Microsoft also offers much the same services. Works surprisingly well too. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-service...

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#496

Post by dylz » Thu, May 11, 2017, 11:45 PM UTC

0xCMP wrote: post #402

coldcode wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not on iOS anymore, that value is scrambled on a regular basis.

This is super cool. Was there any announcement or documentation for this? We used a Cisco Meraki router once for a client and rigged it up to know who was in the office (for fun, to be aware that it could be done). It'd be nice to know the iPhone/iPad scramble themselves if possible.

Android does the same thing, both announced a while ago

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#497

Post by kobeya » Thu, May 11, 2017, 11:46 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #422

Grollicus wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any time you've been in a public place for the past few years, you've likely been watched, analysed and optimised for I don't believe this. This kind of advertisement in public would be illegal in germany as it is mass surveillance.

Germany is an outlier; their history with the Nazis makes the country unusually conservative about anything that could be abused for mass-surveillance purposes. Not that this is a bad thing---being able to think differently like this is one of the positives of having countries!---but relative to the rest of the world, what Germany considers "surveillance" is unusual and sometimes surprising.

I think East Germany is probably the anti-surveillance sentiment more than 70 year old history.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#498

Post by amelius » Thu, May 11, 2017, 11:59 PM UTC

_kb wrote: post #15

You'd be surprised / scared / outraged if you knew how common this is. Any time you've been in a public place for the past few years, you've likely been watched, analysed and optimised for. Advertising in the physical world is just as scummy as it's online equivalent. Check out the video here http://sightcorp.com/ for an ultra creepy overview. You can even try their live demo: https://face-api.sightcorp.com/demo_basi…

Isn't it illegal in most countries to put cameras in public places? Especially if they don't contain a warning?

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#499

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Fri, May 12, 2017, 12:03 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #498

_kb wrote: post #15

You'd be surprised / scared / outraged if you knew how common this is. Any time you've been in a public place for the past few years, you've likely been watched, analysed and optimised for. Advertising in the physical world is just as scummy as it's online equivalent. Check out the video here http://sightcorp.com/ for an ultra creepy overview. You can even try their live demo: https://face-api.sightcorp.com/demo_basi…

Isn't it illegal in most countries to put cameras in public places? Especially if they don't contain a warning?

No one's going to go to jail for their first offence of putting a in an advertising sign.

What's the worst that could happen? The local advertising regulator will order you to meet the regulatory standards or remove the cameras, but give you x number of weeks to act per unit installed.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#500

Post by baldfat » Fri, May 12, 2017, 12:03 AM UTC

794CD01 wrote: post #485

JauntTrooper wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people would disagree. It might be legal, but that doesn't mean it's not unethical. If a stranger on the street started following me, taking pictures without permission, and taking notes about my appearance of actions and storing it in their database, I would say he was behaving unethically. Ask street photographers - it's a delicate balance. Many people really dislike having their pictures taken without…

That is a lot of words to simply say that some people think it is unethical. Which is an essentially empty statement. Couldn't you at least say most people and make it an argumentum ad populum?

lawful and ethical are two totally different things. They are both related but are mutually exclusive of each other

ethical != opinion

Ethical has weight and you can lose your job, and even go to jail for being unethical. RMS actually has a very strong academic ethical mind (Even though I disagree with him more then agree). BUT ethics isn't easily defined.

Here is a decent link to defining Ethics. https://www.scu.edu/ethics/ethics-resources/ethical-decision...