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New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

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Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#161

Post by arca_vorago »

zadjii wrote: post #158
arca_vorago wrote: post #147

If anyone trusts microsoft right now after the past year or two worth of things we've learned I highly doubt their dedication to a free and open source vision of the future. I actually have a hard time beleiving some of these comments are even organic... (web and server devs are going to migrate to windows!). What world do these people live in? It's like people live in fantasy land and have forgotten the 90's truth o…

Hey your opinion is cool and all. But there are a lot of people who put a lot of hard work into this project, because we're developers too, and we think the idea of being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool . This project has never been about EEE. It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice. I like a linux style development environment m…

> being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool.

I could do that before with virtualbox. What kind of benefits besides slight speed increases would we see using the posix WSL?

>It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice.

If I create a prison for you, but then let you choose your cell, do you consider that a valid choice? That's what this is, and I know what you mean but the reality is that windows is a walled garden prison for the user.

>I like a linux style development environment more than I like Windows style.

Then why not dev on GNU+linux?

Also, notice the emphasis on GNU.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#162

Post by foxhill »

zadjii wrote: post #158
arca_vorago wrote: post #147

If anyone trusts microsoft right now after the past year or two worth of things we've learned I highly doubt their dedication to a free and open source vision of the future. I actually have a hard time beleiving some of these comments are even organic... (web and server devs are going to migrate to windows!). What world do these people live in? It's like people live in fantasy land and have forgotten the 90's truth o…

Hey your opinion is cool and all. But there are a lot of people who put a lot of hard work into this project, because we're developers too, and we think the idea of being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool . This project has never been about EEE. It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice. I like a linux style development environment m…

> This project has never been about EEE. It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice.

well, those are the first two 'E's of the picture, if this is the case. with the latest edition of Windows 10 (S, i think?), microsoft have already prepared the stage for the third.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#163

Post by foxhill »

arca_vorago wrote: post #161
zadjii wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey your opinion is cool and all. But there are a lot of people who put a lot of hard work into this project, because we're developers too, and we think the idea of being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool . This project has never been about EEE. It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice. I like a linux style development environment m…

> being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool. I could do that before with virtualbox. What kind of benefits besides slight speed increases would we see using the posix WSL? >It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice. If I create a prison for you, but then let you choose your cell, do you consider that a valid choice? That's what this is…

come on, there's no need to be disingenuous here - having the linux userspace run atop the windows kernel is much closer to docker than virtualization.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#164

Post by foxhill »

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #114

The primary reason I even looked at a Mac, way back in the MacOS 10.2 days, was because there is a Unix underneath the pretty interface. I bought my first Mac and never looked back. Stuff like this is making me look at Windows machines again.

i'm saying this now; POSIX will never be a first class citizen on windows - we might get shims in /proc and /dev, but windows will never run from POSIX. as long as Win32 exists (and lets face it, that's not going away for a long time), we're basically stuck with running a docker container with linux on it in windows.

and that might be all you need. but for many *nix people, this is no where near enough.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#165

Post by Lazare »

arca_vorago wrote: post #147

If anyone trusts microsoft right now after the past year or two worth of things we've learned I highly doubt their dedication to a free and open source vision of the future. I actually have a hard time beleiving some of these comments are even organic... (web and server devs are going to migrate to windows!). What world do these people live in? It's like people live in fantasy land and have forgotten the 90's truth o…

Isn't it a bit ironic, given your concern with 90s-era Microsoft practices...

...that your comment is basically just FUD?

I'm not saying your wrong! But your comment is, clearly, intended to make people feel fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Microsoft, the Windows platform, what MS may choose to do in the future, etc. And you don't have any particular factual claims to back it up (classic FUD tactic), just an appeal to authority ("as a senior sysadmin") and some handwaving about events that took place long before most of us were actually in the workforce. I mean, I'm the oldest dev on my team, and I was a teenager when the Halloween Documents were published.

We live in a very different world. I'm not saying MS wouldn't abuse their power if they could, but you know...what power? And how does WSL provide them an opening? At this point, I'm much, much more concerned about Facebook than Microsoft, and I think the onus is on MS critics to explain exactly what they fear. And no, chanting "embrace, extend, extinguish" is not an explanation.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#166

Post by rizalp »

arca_vorago wrote: post #161
zadjii wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey your opinion is cool and all. But there are a lot of people who put a lot of hard work into this project, because we're developers too, and we think the idea of being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool . This project has never been about EEE. It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice. I like a linux style development environment m…

> being able to run a full linux userland on top of the NT kernel is fucking cool. I could do that before with virtualbox. What kind of benefits besides slight speed increases would we see using the posix WSL? >It's not about controlling the user. It's the complete opposite. It's all about choice. If I create a prison for you, but then let you choose your cell, do you consider that a valid choice? That's what this is…

> Then why not dev on GNU+linux?

So I can have sleep and wifi working properly and working 3D acceleration for Apps and Games.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#167

Post by riquito »

posguy wrote: post #148
corysama wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm betting this is the real end-goal of WSL. MacBooks were once expensive, but high-quality, grab-and-go unixy development machines. Now, they're mostly just expensive. When WSL matures, any commodity laptop will be a cheap, decent quality, grab-and-go unixy dev machine. It'll probably be easier and more reliable than installing Ubuntu directly! At that point, web and server devs will migrate en mass from Mac to Win…

Huh? MacBooks are unlikely to disappear, companies love how slowly they depreciate (and are easily sellable), while it is by far the most optimized unix system out there. Pound for pound, a MacBook will last longer while doing more than a Windows or Linux laptop, despite Microsoft's and Linus's efforts to rectify this. Why would anyone pick Windows over Debian for development if their target is a Linux boxen in a ser…

> Pound for pound, a MacBook will last longer while doing more than a Windows or Linux laptop, despite Microsoft's and Linus's efforts to rectify this.

The repairable/upgradable thinkpads are probably better in this regard

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#168

Post by manicgeek »

htsh wrote: post #142
electrotype wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it with ConEmu and I like my colors... Everything is configurable. http://i.imgur.com/BHDxdOJ.png

Can you run things like nano & stop and navigate around with arrow keys?

Haven't tried that specifically but I've used tmux and vi quite successfully, including mouse support.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#169

Post by ChuckMcM »

I wonder if package maintainers will be able to use this as a way to test their packages on multiple distributions from a single test system. That would be pretty cool.

I continue to be impressed with the progress the WSL team has made. The usable open source development environment on top of a kernel that can correctly drive all the various peripheral in the box is so very useful to me.

Re: New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store

#170

Post by arca_vorago »

Lazare wrote: post #165
arca_vorago wrote: post #147

If anyone trusts microsoft right now after the past year or two worth of things we've learned I highly doubt their dedication to a free and open source vision of the future. I actually have a hard time beleiving some of these comments are even organic... (web and server devs are going to migrate to windows!). What world do these people live in? It's like people live in fantasy land and have forgotten the 90's truth o…

Isn't it a bit ironic, given your concern with 90s-era Microsoft practices... ...that your comment is basically just FUD? I'm not saying your wrong! But your comment is, clearly, intended to make people feel fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Microsoft, the Windows platform, what MS may choose to do in the future, etc. And you don't have any particular factual claims to back it up (classic FUD tactic), just an appeal…

> Isn't it a bit ironic, given your concern with 90s-era Microsoft practices that your comment is basically just FUD?

Apologies for not taking the time to sit down and list all the ways MS has been bad for the FOSS world and the user. For someone who references the halloween documents and the hn userbase in general I think most of this should be mostly obvious and not need specific hand-holding. As for your accusation of fud, fud by defnition is about false or disinformation in combination with the appeal to fear. I'm basing my comments off true information, and not using the fallacious appeal to fear but instead telling how proprietary systems do affect people.

> just an appeal to authority ("as a senior sysadmin")

A key point to the appeal to authority issue is that it isn't inherently a fallacy, and only becomes one with used in an informal fallacy, which I did not. In rhetoric establishing authority is an important (but often overvalued) aspect of argument. As a senior sysadmin, this makes my propositions more likely, but not logically certain. Not a fallacy at all.

> handwaving about events that took place long before most of us were actually in the workforce.

What does the date of these actions have to do with the issue at hand? The four principles of software freedom are still not met by MS, and that's just as relevant today as it was 20 years ago.

> We live in a very different world. I'm not saying MS wouldn't abuse their power if they could, but you know...what power? And how does WSL provide them an opening?

Where do I begin? First of all, we don't really live in such a different world. Fundamental principles of software freedom have been the same since the 80's when they were first brought up, (though they have been refined somewhat). Second, not only would MS abuse their power, but they already have and do! As for what power, I don't know how you can be serious and ask such a question. Instead of ranting I will just give you a good link to read. https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.en.html

> At this point, I'm much, much more concerned about Facebook than Microsoft

This is a logical fallacy. We aren't talking about FB. I'm concerned about it too, but to handwave away MS issues in this way is not conducive to honest intellectual conversation.

> I think the onus is on MS critics to explain exactly what they fear.

We have, for years at that. See above gnu.org link for a start.

> And how does WSL provide them an opening?

You mean other than replacing a gplv2 kernel with a closed source proprietary one?

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