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A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

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Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#331

Post by discreteevent »

ffriend wrote: post #254
bigbugbag wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a store has a warning at the door that this happens inside, it's good because now I can avoid getting inside the store and silently hate and boycott the brand. If a store has a warning label on the device engaging in this, it's bad because it's too late for not entering the store. I'm gonna complain right now at the store manager, maybe call the cops or sue. I'll be vocal about actively hating the store, the brand…

Thanks for the detailed comment. Couple clarifying questions if you don't mind: - do you know that loyalty cards are often used in stores to collect customer data (a kind of offline cookie)? do you consider it a bad/dangerous/unethical or does it sound ok for you? - if instead of a camera there was a person looking at customers and recording his observation, would you feel bad about it?

I'm not the parent commenter but:

- do you know that loyalty cards are often used in stores to collect customer data (a kind of offline cookie)? do you consider it a bad/dangerous/unethical or does it sound ok for you?

Yes I do know that loyalty cards are used to collect data. I think most people do. I don't take loyalty cards for this reason and I'm glad that they are opt in although there is some financial pressure to take them.

- if instead of a camera there was a person looking at customers and recording his observation, would you feel bad about it?

I would feel bad about it and I think the person should ask my permission first.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#332

Post by kebman »

i336_ wrote: post #316
phkahler wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Well this is annoyingly difficult to discuss, then... Why? Is there a law against public discussion about how to disable an anti-theft device or something?

Okay, not really - but it can be tricky to know where to draw the line. I guess I was uncertain.

I draw the line where actions are taken. A discussion is not an action. Using a device illegally is, like for instance pulling the trigger of a gun with the evil intent of murder, or taking something that isn't yours.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#333

Post by Angostura »

r0muald wrote: post #142
asher_ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this scummy exactly? If a salesperson was to try to sell to you in a store, they would take into account how you appear and act to tailor the sale. There's nothing wrong with that. Why is it suddenly bad if a machine does it?

Because when you talk to a salesperson you know you're being looked at (and reciprocally you're looking at them), and human memory is limited so it's unlikely they will retain any "data" about you when the contact is finished. Here, instead, there is no indication that you're being watched, analyzed and kept recorded for indefinite amounts of time.

I assume that the data is being used for A/B testing on the display designs (we get 20% more attention from teenagers when the background is orange) - if that's the case, not very scummy.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#334

Post by alanfalcon »

deadbunny wrote: post #273
lloeki wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what am I supposed to do if I find this invading my privacy? Not walk within 10m of such a billboard? It's not like there's any other active way to opt out of this. I suppose a banner saying "you are being tracked" on tom of such a billboard could have quite an interesting effect. Come to think of it I've seen "Smile, you're being recorded!" in some shops.

Embrace the cyberpunk future and get a silly haircut/makeup: https://cvdazzle.com/

This is brilliant.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#335

Post by alanfalcon »

Kliment wrote: post #293

And just today I got an ad (in the paper mail) from an electronics distributor notifying me of new parts they stock. Among them was an embedded face and expression recognition engine that would emit pretty much this data, in a convenient text output you can read into any little microcontroller and act on (omron B5T-007001-010 if anyone is interested). This is no longer exciting cutting edge technology, it's off the s…

If you visit my website and fail to complete a purchase, you may find a physical postcard in the mail from us in a few days with a surreptitious coupon code. No, you did not actually tell us your mailing address at any point; knowing your e-mail is sufficient.

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#337

Post by rpeden »

_kb wrote: post #15

You'd be surprised / scared / outraged if you knew how common this is. Any time you've been in a public place for the past few years, you've likely been watched, analysed and optimised for. Advertising in the physical world is just as scummy as it's online equivalent. Check out the video here http://sightcorp.com/ for an ultra creepy overview. You can even try their live demo: https://face-api.sightcorp.com/demo_basi…

Indeed. This isn't new. It's everywhere.

The cameras retailers use with their surveillance systems are coming with facial recognition built in now. [1]

And lots of retailers, banks, etc, are using systems that track people's visits across multiple locations. [2]

You'll see a lot of these systems being sold as fraud/loss prevention solutions. The reason for this is that it's a relatively easy sell this way - customers can count how many thieves they've caught this way to easily determine the ROI they're getting on the system. Once the systems are in place, it's relatively easy to start using them for marketing related purposes.

Not all uses of systems like these are necessarily unethical. Consider a case where you want to set up a rule like 'if the average lineup length at the checkouts exceeds 5 people, call backup cashiers'. The problem is that once you have something like this in place, it's very tempting for company execs to want to use the data for legal but less than ethical purposes.

[1] https://www.axis.com/ca/en/solutions-by-application/facial-r... [2] https://www.facefirst.com/solutions/face-recognition-predict...

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#339

Post by 6nf »

Freak_NL wrote: post #274
adenner wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes the credit card terminal will ask especially at gas pumps for my zip code as an anti fraud measure, and will reject the transaction of you enter the wrong number. If a cashier is asking I always use 90210.

I guess a lot of people not from the US will use 90210 when prompted for a US postal code. I can't even remember what the show was about (except that it was set in Beverly Hills, obviously), but the number stuck.

The show was called 'Beverly Hills 90210'

Just a generic teen drama

Re: A crashed advertisement reveals logs of a facial recognition system

#340

Post by spuz »

ffriend wrote: post #314
maze-le wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a question: Do you do trials in a controlled environment, where you actually have proper feedback and a distinct comparison between self-described state and machine analysis? Because in my opinion, systems like these are like modern day version of astrology (at least, when they are only based on vision and not things like fMRT imaging or proper psychological analysis). I know seriously depressed people, who al…

I see 2 separate issues here: 1. Accurate collection of facial features. Illumination, occlusions, head rotation, etc. may seriously affect accuracy, but this is exactly our main focus right now. We are at the very start of the process, yet early experiments and some recent papers show that it should be doable. 2. Correlation between real and detected emotional state. At the moment we concentrate on the 6 basic emoti…

> I'm pretty much sure it's possible to implement given enough training data

No, the point of the comment you are replying to is that there are emotions that are impossible to detect using external information. We can hide our emotions very well. The question is to what extent does external emotional information provide monetizable value?

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