U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#111

Post by Treegarden » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:22 AM UTC

flexie wrote: post #91

Flying is already such a dreadful thing. Even a one hour flight takes 5-7 hours when you count in all the extras. In my experience, a 1 hour flight like London - Brussels, is not much faster than a 7 hour flight like London - New York. Airports are a text book study in what monopoly and fear mongering politicians do. - On the day of the flight you go from your departure city to the airport somewhere far away in the o…

What do you think could be improved/changed in the future?

I agree that the process is overly tedious to an unnecessary degree. I have read that test have shown that TSA security( or check-in security in general) is more for show (providing sense of security) then actually being effective. In addition to that the statistics even say that risks of airplane failures are far lower then other risks.

Yet there seems to be a trend in banning and restricting more and more from airplane travel. And many people, that I know, think these restrictions are good.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#112

Post by pico303 » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:22 AM UTC

vivekd wrote: post #42

A lot of comments very critical on the ban. America has intel - and good intel from a raid - that shows that ISIS has the capability and intent to hide a bomb inside laptop batteries to blow up passenger planes containing lots of people. Don’t the American people have the right to take steps to protect themselves from this? This is a simple requirement that laptops be checked baggage and not carry on. That hardly see…

As an American who frequently travels to Europe for business and pleasure, it's more than the inconvenience. Luggage handlers frequently lose or damage luggage--not rarely, but frequently. Most of my bags are pretty beat up. Just watch them load baggage onto a plane sometime, then tell me you feel comfortable leaving $4000 in equipment in a baggage hold.

Furthermore, there are many, many instances of lithium batteries unintentionally catching fire mid-flight. While the device is in the cabin, passengers can douse the flames. Now imagine a device in a cargo hold...over the Atlantic...with dozens of other flammable batteries...catching fire...where no one can get to it and there's no place to land...

Most importantly, this fear of being killed by a terrorist is getting ridiculous. We give up everything just on the off chance somebody might try to disable a plane. But we still get into cars, walk down streets, attend movies and plays, go out in public, go to work--all activities people are killed on almost a daily basis. As a Colorado resident, we've had schools shot up, movie theaters, even the building down the street from where I work had an "active shooting" situation recently. If we treated the risk of death honestly, we'd spend all our time on planes and none of our time out in the world.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#113

Post by ar0 » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:24 AM UTC

vivekd wrote: post #92

ar0 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that the prior comment was condescending and not very helpful, I think the key arguments (already put forward elsewhere in this discussion) against the "they have good intel" argument still stand and so far have not been plausibly refuted: a) I would assume the U.S. would share such intelligence at least with their allies. So why has no other country except the U.K. implemented similar measures? Do they…

They have shared the intel with their allies and with the general public. If you guys want to get ahead to conspiracy theroies saying that is is fabricated then you need to explain why other stuff like the moon landing and vaccinations and global warming is not fabricated. You cant have it both ways where all the stuff you like is all true and all the stuff you dont is some kind of conspiracy http://www.reuters.com/a…

Just to set the record straight: I never once in my comment talked about "evidence of conspiracy or fraud on the part of the government". You are putting words into my mouth here.

All I am saying is that in my opinion the intel isn't that strong, because otherwise a) other countries would have acted on it as well and b) you would implement the ban in such a way that it isn't trivial to circumvent.

This has nothing to do with conspiracy or fraud. Faced with the same evidence, different people can come to different conclusions and cost/benefit trade-offs, and apparently the U.S. government (for whatever reasons) has come to a different conclusion than most of the rest of the world. Is this a sign of a conspiracy? No. Does this mean these new U.S. policies are per se reasonable and a good idea? Also no.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#114

Post by vivekd » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:24 AM UTC

et-al wrote: post #76

vivekd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is that when the US says they raided an ISIS compound in Yemen and discovered plans to hide bombs inside laptops to blow up planes - this does not qualify as good enough intel to act on? You seem to be using snark as a substitute for defending your proposition through thoughtful analysis and argumentation.

Whether consciously or as satire, your writing imitated Donald Trump's speech style for a second. I believe that's what the other poster was pointing out. America has intel, the best intel, that shows that..

Whether someone sounds like Donald to you is not relevant to the facts at hand . . . like the fact that they raided an ISIS camp and found plans and a video which was widely disseminated. Which was mentioned in the article. What or who I sound like when I point that out, whether that be Donald or Kim Ill Sung or Jack the Ripper or whomever is not relevant

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#115

Post by inferiorhuman » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:24 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #97

jasonkester wrote: post #3

No worries. For a few hundred dollars, I'm sure you'll be able to register as a certified patriotic laptop carrier. Everything will go back to normal and the airline will get to collect yet another fee for something we used to get for free. And we're totally safer from terrorists as a result.

Don't forget about the extra revenue for the airlines from selling more movies on seatback displays.

What seatback displays? Many airlines (the US3 at least) are moving towards the WiFi+bring-your-own-device model.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#116

Post by vivekd » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:32 AM UTC

ar0 wrote: post #113

vivekd wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have shared the intel with their allies and with the general public. If you guys want to get ahead to conspiracy theroies saying that is is fabricated then you need to explain why other stuff like the moon landing and vaccinations and global warming is not fabricated. You cant have it both ways where all the stuff you like is all true and all the stuff you dont is some kind of conspiracy http://www.reuters.com/a…

Just to set the record straight: I never once in my comment talked about "evidence of conspiracy or fraud on the part of the government". You are putting words into my mouth here. All I am saying is that in my opinion the intel isn't that strong, because otherwise a) other countries would have acted on it as well and b) you would implement the ban in such a way that it isn't trivial to circumvent. This has nothing to…

>This has nothing to do with conspiracy or fraud.

But thats exactly what you are saying when you say that they made up a terror threat and lied about the contents of information in the raid to justify policies. That is the definition of fraud and conspiracy

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#117

Post by pif » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:35 AM UTC

arghwhat wrote: post #81

RangerScience wrote: post #52

One of the advantageous to living in California is that when I go overseas, I can tell people I'm Californian, rather than American. Because people's ideas of CA is 1) LA/Hollywood, 2) SF/SV, 3) Yosemite / Tahoe, you get a pretty different response.

If you told me you were "Californian", I would give you a really weird stare, think for a moment, and then reply with "Oh, American?", while wondering if you thought California was a country. And even then, very few will know the cultural difference between, say, California and Tennessee or Alabama. Just like an American might think of China as one thing with one culture, we generally view USA as one thing with one c…

> If you told me you were "Californian", I would give you a really weird stare,

I would as well! You'd immediately remind me of those people from Paris who introduce themselves as Parisian rather than French.

By the way, I like Paris. But I love France because it is much more than Paris.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#118

Post by skissane » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:37 AM UTC

arghwhat wrote: post #81

RangerScience wrote: post #52

One of the advantageous to living in California is that when I go overseas, I can tell people I'm Californian, rather than American. Because people's ideas of CA is 1) LA/Hollywood, 2) SF/SV, 3) Yosemite / Tahoe, you get a pretty different response.

If you told me you were "Californian", I would give you a really weird stare, think for a moment, and then reply with "Oh, American?", while wondering if you thought California was a country. And even then, very few will know the cultural difference between, say, California and Tennessee or Alabama. Just like an American might think of China as one thing with one culture, we generally view USA as one thing with one c…

> And even then, very few will know the cultural difference between, say, California and Tennessee or Alabama.

As an Australian, I will say I think most Australians understand there are cultural differences between California and Tennessee or Alabama, and could probably even identify what some of the differences are (even if incompletely and overly simplistically). Australians would probably struggle to explain the cultural differences between Tennessee and Alabama, but then I imagine many Americans would struggle to explain that too. I expect that this very basic understanding of US cultural geography is common in some other countries also (such as New Zealand or Canada or the UK or Ireland).

> Just like an American might think of China as one thing with one culture, we generally view USA as one thing with one culture.

I would think that most educated Americans would understand that the culture in Beijing or Shanghai is quite different from that in Tibet or Xinjiang.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#119

Post by beojan » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:38 AM UTC

italicbold wrote: post #108

janoc wrote: post #100

I do wonder how many laptop bombs have endangered planes so far - vs. actual Li-ion battery fires. Force laptops in the holds and watch planes crash when the inevitable battery fire happens. This policy will likely kill more people than the terrorist menace it is meant to protect against. And that doesn't even consider the loss of business, because people simply won't fly without a laptop (or put it in the hold - con…

I don't agree that a laptop on a flight is "essential" for business people. While I always notice very few people using laptops on business class flights, after all the point of flying business class is so that you can get some rest to arrive fresh to work, one area where you do see laptop use is in business class lounges. Unfortunately this ban will affect that as you cant check-in hold luggage after departing the l…

The problem isn't being deprived of the use of the laptop in flight, it's that you're separated from the laptop, which increases the chance it will be damaged / stolen (especially given that bags can only be locked with TSA approved locks).

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#120

Post by teddythetwig » Thu, May 11, 2017, 9:40 AM UTC

italicbold wrote: post #108

janoc wrote: post #100

I do wonder how many laptop bombs have endangered planes so far - vs. actual Li-ion battery fires. Force laptops in the holds and watch planes crash when the inevitable battery fire happens. This policy will likely kill more people than the terrorist menace it is meant to protect against. And that doesn't even consider the loss of business, because people simply won't fly without a laptop (or put it in the hold - con…

I don't agree that a laptop on a flight is "essential" for business people. While I always notice very few people using laptops on business class flights, after all the point of flying business class is so that you can get some rest to arrive fresh to work, one area where you do see laptop use is in business class lounges. Unfortunately this ban will affect that as you cant check-in hold luggage after departing the l…

I think you are missing the point. It isn't that business travelers need their laptops during the flight, but that most don't check any luggage at all. When I was flying for business, I only traveled with hand luggage. No need to deal with the hassle of checking a bag, when all my clothes for the next few days can fit into a carry on bag.