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U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

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Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#61

Post by grey-area »

cstejerean wrote: post #7
tim333 wrote: post #4

That's a bit of a pain. I wonder why a laptop bomb would cause problems in the cabin but not in the cargo hold.

A laptop bomb would presumably be fairly small in size and would probably have to be placed directly against some sensitive part of the plane in order to be effective. The cargo hold meanwhile is already reinforced and any bomb would most likely end up in a middle of a lot of baggage that would absorb most of the blast. It would probably force the plane to make an emergency landing but it's unlikely to be catastrophi…

Here's a video of a lithium battery fire in a cargo hold, as you can see it causes an explosion and swiftly a fire that burns the entire compartment. If you imagine every checked in bag containing a laptop, you'd get a similar effect if you rig one to catch fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd0EzQaEiZQ

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#62

Post by robin_reala »

mathw wrote: post #44
robin_reala wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with electric aircraft is a bit like a mini Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. In a conventional aircraft fuel is burnt off as it flies causing it to lighten and become more fuel efficient as it travels. With battery aircraft this doesn’t happen so you need more batteries upfront to travel the distance.

Batteries do get lighter as they discharge! Just not by enough to matter.

OK, if we’re being pedantic ;) This SE answer puts the difference between a fully charged and fully discharged Chevy Volt at half a microgram: https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/34424/134467

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#63

Post by Oletros »

vivekd wrote: post #42

A lot of comments very critical on the ban. America has intel - and good intel from a raid - that shows that ISIS has the capability and intent to hide a bomb inside laptop batteries to blow up passenger planes containing lots of people. Don’t the American people have the right to take steps to protect themselves from this? This is a simple requirement that laptops be checked baggage and not carry on. That hardly see…

Then you should be angry that laptops are banned from only flights from some countries, isn't?

Or do you think that terrorists are naive and won't use other airlines and origin airports?

Or perhaps that intel is just bullshit just to implant those measures

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#64

Post by dogma1138 »

openplatypus wrote: post #57
frisco wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The airlines enforce it, who must if they want to keep being allowed to operate flights to the US.

Yet they also operate under EU law so it would be enough to make this practice illegal. I am afraid that EU goverments will bow to US rules. Or maybe this will be the final straw?

They operate under international and super national air safety authority regulations.

EU law doesn't protect your rights to have an item on a flight, while they might not be banned in the EU when flying to the US they'll comply with FAA regulations.

On board internet for example is turned off on flights to china from the EU per Chinese regulations as soon as the flight approaches Chinese airspace.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#65

Post by dom0 »

vivekd wrote: post #53
dom0 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America has intel - and good intel from a raid - that shows that ISIS has the capability and intent to hide a bomb inside laptop batteries to blow up passenger planes That's false, it's the best intel.

So your argument is that when the US says they raided an ISIS compound in Yemen and discovered plans to hide bombs inside laptops to blow up planes - this does not qualify as good enough intel to act on? You seem to be using snark as a substitute for defending your proposition through thoughtful analysis and argumentation.

No, actually the argument is that

> the US [government] says [they have intel]

has historically been full of shit and completely made up from time to time. Therefore there is no reason to believe it now.

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#66

Post by vivekd »

Oletros wrote: post #63
vivekd wrote: post #42

A lot of comments very critical on the ban. America has intel - and good intel from a raid - that shows that ISIS has the capability and intent to hide a bomb inside laptop batteries to blow up passenger planes containing lots of people. Don’t the American people have the right to take steps to protect themselves from this? This is a simple requirement that laptops be checked baggage and not carry on. That hardly see…

Then you should be angry that laptops are banned from only flights from some countries, isn't? Or do you think that terrorists are naive and won't use other airlines and origin airports? Or perhaps that intel is just bullshit just to implant those measures

>intel is just bullshit just to implant those measures

If you are going to assume without evidence and offhand that everything the American government says is bullshit, you might as well go ahead and join the terrorists because you seem to believe that we support and work for an evil, manipulative and deceptive regime.

I am going to believe what the US government says about the raids until there is evidence to the contrary. I believe things on evidence and not because I hate or have an ax to grind with certain countries.

>Or do you think that terrorists are naive and won't use other airlines and origin airports?

Maybe they are just applying greater precautions to areas deemed high risk for attacks, like they have always done - did you consider that. I am not angry because the precautions cannot perfectly protect us from attack, because that would be as unreasonable and irrational as being angry that they are taking any precautions

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#67

Post by flipp3r »

vivekd wrote: post #42

A lot of comments very critical on the ban. America has intel - and good intel from a raid - that shows that ISIS has the capability and intent to hide a bomb inside laptop batteries to blow up passenger planes containing lots of people. Don’t the American people have the right to take steps to protect themselves from this? This is a simple requirement that laptops be checked baggage and not carry on. That hardly see…

> people who are so self centered that they would demand that Americans risk the very real threat of deadly terrorist attacks (...)

Europeans being self-centered? It's us not wanting to hand our computers to USA agencies, known to clone your harddrive and/or implant other crap on it. Agencies who can hold you indefinitely and are affiliated with other 3 letter agencies who do worse. ( See https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa... )

Do you think it would be fair to treat Americans going on vacation to any European country like this? Just let me clone your phone and laptop friend, it's for your own safety /s

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#68

Post by Algent »

vivekd wrote: post #50
throwaway31445 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh dear god. Stop making me cringe.

So lets get this straight: 1. Discovering a terrorist plot to hide bombs inside carry on laptop batteries - and then not taking any precautions at all and allowing laptops on planes as normal: A prudent and smart thing to do. 2. Discovering a terrorist plot to hide bombs inside carry on laptop batteries - and then taking purdent, minimal precuations by asking people to deal with the minor inconvenience of checking th…

> minor inconvenience

Asking everyone in a plane to have nothing to do during a 8h flight (at best) is not a "minor inconvenience".

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#69

Post by [deleted] »

enraged_camel wrote: post #18
cstejerean wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A laptop bomb would presumably be fairly small in size and would probably have to be placed directly against some sensitive part of the plane in order to be effective. The cargo hold meanwhile is already reinforced and any bomb would most likely end up in a middle of a lot of baggage that would absorb most of the blast. It would probably force the plane to make an emergency landing but it's unlikely to be catastrophi…

The risk with laptops in the cargo hold isn't the blast force of explosions causing a hull breach, but fires. Now any terrorist who wants to bring down a plane simply needs to rig their laptop batteries to catch on fire, which is much, much easier to do than rigging it to explode.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights from Europe

#70

Post by vivekd »

dom0 wrote: post #65
vivekd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is that when the US says they raided an ISIS compound in Yemen and discovered plans to hide bombs inside laptops to blow up planes - this does not qualify as good enough intel to act on? You seem to be using snark as a substitute for defending your proposition through thoughtful analysis and argumentation.

No, actually the argument is that > the US [government] says [they have intel] has historically been full of shit and completely made up from time to time. Therefore there is no reason to believe it now.

> has historically been full of shit and completely made up from time to time. Therefore there is no reason to believe it now.

Then why do you believe them about the terrorists being the bad guys, or even existing at all. Why not set up a nice rendezvous with ISIS and maybe talk about what you have in common.

Why believe the government about anything ever. Why do you think they are telling the truth about vaccinations or the benefit of public schools or anything if you have deemed them to be constant liars.

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