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“Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

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Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#71
post #53

I think the key point here is not whether Google is abusing its effective monopoly willingly, its that it exists at all. There may be alternatives, but not viable ones. Try not supporting Chrome or ignoring Chrome requirements such as security mandates, you will go out of business. You can say these are 'good' for the consumer but the fact that Google has the ability to unilaterally change the web itself is partially…

Whats the viable alternative to Google Search? Sure you can use Bing as a customer, but if you're a website operator you HAVE to stay on Google's good side. (not always easy to do)

Or you can not base your business on the fickleness of Google's search algorithms. Ben Thompson (stratechery.com) posts one article per week publically and charged $100 a year for his newsletter. The only time he gave numbers, he has over 2000 subscribers.

There are other ways to build a business that don't depend on search.

Whats the viable alternative to Adsense? Especially when it comes to many Geo's that are hard to monetize.

If you are in a certain niche, find a publication or a podcast that serves that niche and make a direct connection to them. Marco Arment - a one man development shop - created his own podcast based advertising platform that is doing well.

What's the viable alternative to Android

The viable alternative to Android is...Android. Many companies are forking the AOSP version of Android and running their own services, including Amazon in the U.S. and a few companies in developing markets.

The danger Google faces is not that a company will come up with a better search engine, it's that people will start using search engines less as mobile takes over along with digital assistants that give you the information you want.

Facebook is already seen as a place for old people and young people may have a FB page but they aren't posting to it because their parents are on it.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#72
post #5

Google has a ton of competition across all of its products. It's dominating in some of them but being better then your competition is a lot different then there not being any.

> Google has a ton of competition across all of its products. It's dominating in some of them but being better then your competition is a lot different then there not being any.

This was also true for Microsoft. There were plenty of other operating systems, even PC ones.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've replaced Google Maps with my iPhone's Apple Maps, and I barely use e-mail other than for transactional matters, so I'm pretty close. What's your recommendation for e-mail replacement?

I've fallen in love with Outlook.com. I know, I know, Microsoft is just as if not more evil but frankly I've found their commitment to privacy to carry very well through the service, plus, the spam-blocking is excellent. Best I've used.

Please step back from your entrenched viewpoint and look objectively at this.

You move away from a company because they are attempting "Don't be Evil", and failing in your opinion. Then you use a company that doesn't even try to rate on non-evilness and just cares about profit.

Microsoft has clearly abused their actual monopoly. They have been sued and lost for many things up to and including lying to the justice department. They are constantly being pushed back by Europe and South Korea on on bundling various things in an attempt to stifle competition. They had the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish memo where they announced all out assault on the open source community. They are patent trolling and rent seeking against Android handset makers today, right now (if they actually wanted to defend their IP they would sue google, but they want to rent seek). They put ads in local software running on peoples machines, right in the start menu. They built spyware into operating systems. They have had problems issuing rebates and paying kickbacks to squeeze other operating system out of the market. They have coerced standardization bodies. Microsoft uses security updates to force operating systems on people and stops support to convince people to move to newer versions for more money. I could go on like this for hours, but this 5 minutes of typing was enough to illustrate my point.

The worst that can be said about Google is that sometimes their things they give away for free don't work right in all the browsers, and even then they try to fix it.

This is astoundingly hypocritical.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#74
post #9
post #5

Google has a ton of competition across all of its products. It's dominating in some of them but being better then your competition is a lot different then there not being any.

Google beats the competition in some markets because they have so much power in other markets. If you start a startup even in cloud photo storage, and suddenly Google Photos comes along, you’re dead. No one will fund you anymore, and you’ve basically lost. Google has such an immense amount of network effect, and of knowledge they can gain from dominating in other markets, that if Google enters a market – unless there…

You must not be paying attention to all the failures that google releases.

Google dominates email, but waves and even inbox I would say aren't catching on. They are failing in mobile messaging. Even though they own a huge part of your social graph through phone and email, they still can't get social right. Google owns ITA but Google flights is not the first place you look for plane tickets. Google also owns Zagat, but foursquare and yelp still dominate.

I think the argument only looks at the wins and completely ignores everything else.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#75
post #62
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google beats the competition in some markets because they have so much power in other markets. If you start a startup even in cloud photo storage, and suddenly Google Photos comes along, you’re dead. No one will fund you anymore, and you’ve basically lost. Google has such an immense amount of network effect, and of knowledge they can gain from dominating in other markets, that if Google enters a market – unless there…

That's true for almost all large companies. Why would invest in some startup X if Boing announces the same product? Size gives you advantage, but its not an auto win.

To add, Yahoo, Excite, Altavista were much bigger companies when Google entered the search space.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#76
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you feel about Apple? When Google wins it's because they make a better product than the other guy. Apple can deliver a clearly inferior product (e.g. the last 5 years of iTunes) and still win because their customers are using iDevices. Google doesn't have that lock-in and they still do really well which makes me feel like they're not really a monopoly.

I think a big part of it is that Google controls one of the single most effective advertising channels to drive the growth of a competitor, and can therefore strangle them in the cradle.

Wait Google does not allow its competitors to use Adsense?

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#77
The term "Natural Monopoly" has a special meaning besides just the common definition of both words, which is missing from this discussion, but is in my opinion the most interesting topic of discussion. Basically all software fits the economic definition of "Natural Monopoly".

Natural monopolies exist in situations where the fixed cost is large and the marginal (per-customer) cost is small. In these situations, it only makes sense for one company to exist, as each additional company that exists will just increase that large fixed cost, while not decreasing the per-customer cost. Therefore, each additional company just increases the the total societal and average per-customer cost.

Natural Monopolies have been defined and talked about for longer than software has been around. The long-running natural monopoly example has been that it doesn't make sense to have two power lines to your house. Another historical example includes newspapers, who have fixed article writing costs, but can distribute it to every customer in a city. Some people consider that Wal-marts in small towns are natural monopolies, given the fixed cost of a large store, and the lack of a market for more than one store in a given area.

Software, of course, has large fixed costs and small per-customer costs.

The questions for me are:

-Historically, why have some natural monopolies been considered bad (railroads, utilities), and needing regulation, and others (newspapers, Walmart) not?

-Is Google's advantage really as a true economic natural monopoly, or is it just a really powerful habit and brand? Bing seems pretty close in search quality, but yet few switch over.

-If the economic definition of natural monopoly exists at Google and most software companies - why are there countless exceptions in software: database software (Oracle, SQL Server, DB2...), Web browsers (Chrome, Edge, FireFox, Safari), calculator apps, etc?

-What are the current issues with potential natural monopolies at these software companies, and would a regulated model make them better or worse for society?

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/natural_monopoly.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#78
post #5

Google has a ton of competition across all of its products. It's dominating in some of them but being better then your competition is a lot different then there not being any.

> Google has a ton of competition across all of its products. It's dominating in some of them but being better then your competition is a lot different then there not being any. This was also true for Microsoft. There were plenty of other operating systems, even PC ones.

And switching to bing for search is orders of magnitude easier than switching operating systems.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#79
post #15

It would be great to see more balanced discourse on monopolies, especially in a software-dominated world. Most analyses and articles fixate on the costs of monopolies. Let's assume the worst of Google and conclude they abused their search monopoly. Innovation in search was stifled. Competitors were damaged and achieved only a fraction of their potential. For instance, Yelp might be worth $15B instead of $3B in a worl…

>But Google's search monopoly and concomitant cash flows also gave society free worldwide communication, self-driving cars, cheaper smartphones, free digital maps, and countless other benefits. To be clear you can't be sure those things wouldn't be around if google hadn't had a search monopoly. Maybe we would have even better digital maps for example had there been way more firms competing. Monopolies can't just be m…

Exactly.

This is a common criticism lobbed at Microsoft. And it's just as true for Google as it is for Microsoft.

Re: “Google Is as Close to a Natural Monopoly as the Bell System Was in 1956″

#80
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand what you are saying. It seem like your saying there is no natural monopoly but rather a government enforced one. Then you seem to say that the ICC did not stop 'anti-competitive' behavoir. I'm not sure what that means, all companies are against their competition. If there is not a natural monopoly why would any government agency have to do anything?

A monopoly is a seller with few or no competing sellers. In many cases this is bad for consumers, so many governments have taken steps to dismantle some monopolies or ameliorate their bad effects. It's not clear that "natural monopoly" is a category that has any members, but the theory is that a natural monopoly is a monopoly such that dismantling it would have other bad effects that would be worse than the direct ba…

Natural monopoly in this context is only a falsehood if one ignores the 'bad effects' of govt losing its capability of easy universal surveillance...
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