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Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

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Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#11

Post by lettergram »

pmarreck wrote: post #10
lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

> hence I'll never go back. So basically, you're saying that since they (according to you) weren't plastering news about their P2P design across all their marketing (as if most people would even be able to understand that, from a marketing perspective), and DESPITE the fact that it was well-known enough for academic papers in 2011 to be written on the design ( http://pansentient.com/2011/04/spotify-technology-some-st…

I'm not telling you not to use their service, my wife (for example) continues to use Spotify.

However, I personally will never use their service again. When they thought it was alright to use my network (that I pay for) to make money, then I have a right to turn my back on them.

Questionable legality is one thing, I personally could care less about laws. I break probably 5 or 6 laws an hour. Laws have nothing to do about morality. It's "illegal" to go 1 mph over the speed limit, it's "illegal" to cross the street without a sign, etc. As a society the vast majority of the laws we don't care about or follow.

What most people do is try to be moral and civil with one another. In the case of distributing music, most people seem willing to pay (hence Spotify has become popular). However, that didn't give them a right to use my network without my consent.

That is immoral, and that will get a visceral reaction from people. In this case, it didn't surprise me they were using torrented content in their service. I shared what I found interesting, and why it didn't surprise me, and also my opinion about how they were shady.

> even though they've since entirely removed that functionality?

If a company is shady, I'm not going to trust them with my money / data unless I have to (i.e. Comcast / Verizon / AT&T). If I have a choice, I'd use someone else. This is my "vote" of dissatisfaction. I vote with my wallet, and I share my insights / knowledge such that others will vote (informed) as well.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#12

Post by radlad »

lettergram wrote: post #11
pmarreck wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hence I'll never go back. So basically, you're saying that since they (according to you) weren't plastering news about their P2P design across all their marketing (as if most people would even be able to understand that, from a marketing perspective), and DESPITE the fact that it was well-known enough for academic papers in 2011 to be written on the design ( http://pansentient.com/2011/04/spotify-technology-some-st…

I'm not telling you not to use their service, my wife (for example) continues to use Spotify. However, I personally will never use their service again. When they thought it was alright to use my network (that I pay for) to make money, then I have a right to turn my back on them. Questionable legality is one thing, I personally could care less about laws. I break probably 5 or 6 laws an hour. Laws have nothing to do a…

I think the parent's point was that people and companies make mistakes. Voting with your wallet is a great idea -- often times when I pull funding from a company for a perceived slight, if they react to my vote, I'll vote again by paying for their service.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#13

Post by dspillett »

pmarreck wrote: post #10
lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

> hence I'll never go back. So basically, you're saying that since they (according to you) weren't plastering news about their P2P design across all their marketing (as if most people would even be able to understand that, from a marketing perspective), and DESPITE the fact that it was well-known enough for academic papers in 2011 to be written on the design ( http://pansentient.com/2011/04/spotify-technology-some-st…

> have questionable legality

I don't read the previous post as complaining about legality, but instead about taking an actin that could cost him as a user either financially (through bandwidth charges) or inconvenience (through reduced bandwidth available to other applications, or getting cut off or speed limited instead of charged for the extra bandwidth which is how some mobile plans work).

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#14

Post by arprocter »

lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

Skype used to do that too, although according to them they also moved away from it[0]

[0]https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA12381/what-is-the-cloud

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#15

Post by oblio »

drakenot wrote: post #6
lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

They removed P2P streaming around 2014[0]. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/17/spotify-removes-peer-to-pe...

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes.

For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc.

I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype dumped it even before the acquisition).

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#16

Post by eli »

oblio wrote: post #15
drakenot wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They removed P2P streaming around 2014[0]. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/17/spotify-removes-peer-to-pe...

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes. For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc. I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype du…

I thought it was more about punching through firewalls than borrowing processing power

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#17

Post by oblio »

eli wrote: post #16
oblio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good old Skype strategy, with super nodes. For those who didn't use Skype at the time, they had an algorithm which would promote some nodes to "super node" status. Those nodes would then be used for processing power, uploads, etc. I guess Microsoft didn't like the possible legal implications and this "feature" went on the chopping block quite early after the acquisition (unless my memory's failing me and Skype du…

I thought it was more about punching through firewalls than borrowing processing power

Could be.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/skype-ditched-peer-to-peer-supe...

> ...the Skype peer-to-peer network architecture elected certain nodes to be "supernodes", to help maintain the index of peers as well as handle parts of the NAT [network address translation]/firewall traversal for other peers. This election algorithm chose only machines with open Internet connectivity, substantial uptime, and which were running the latest version of our peer-to-peer code.

I probably misunderstood the first part of his comment to mean that they also wanted to distribute some of their processing to clients.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#18

Post by fao_ »

pmarreck wrote: post #10
lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

> hence I'll never go back. So basically, you're saying that since they (according to you) weren't plastering news about their P2P design across all their marketing (as if most people would even be able to understand that, from a marketing perspective), and DESPITE the fact that it was well-known enough for academic papers in 2011 to be written on the design ( http://pansentient.com/2011/04/spotify-technology-some-st…

I'm not the OP. But I can see why they would not wish to go back; it is a breach of trust between company and consumer. Their product was using network to stream personal data, and gave no warning about it. The fact that they were caught does not matter, what matters is that because they thought they could get away with it in the first place, they did it anyway.

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#19

Post by kakarot »

lettergram wrote: post #2

One thing I noticed a few years ago, was that Spotify was using a massive amount more upload bandwidth than download. Upon digging it actually appeared they were streaming FROM my computer, similar to how a torrenting system works. I'm assuming their current platform is doing something similar. If this is indeed the case, they can stream music to everyone's phones / computers, then use their network to stream to thei…

There is a common element here. The original developer of uTorrent sold his product to BitTorrent and teamed up with the Spotify guys as the key engineer, and was critical to the success of the early product.

Ludvig is a badass. He's been one of my favorite programmers since the early uTorrent days. That's why Spotify was such a good product back in beta, he basically had control over everything technical.

Thus the P2P approach to bootstrap their service (I didn't mind. It was actually a pretty cool solution to an engineering problem) and the use of pirated media to test the product. Ludvig helped create Spotify in an attempt to turn his love for P2P into an actual commercial product.

Of course, Spotify sucks now and BitTorrent has mutilated uTorrent. I hope he leaves Spotify and starts a new project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludvig_Strigeus

Re: Spotify’s Beta Used ‘Pirate’ MP3 Files, Some from Pirate Bay

#20

Post by crucialfelix »

Kiro wrote: post #9

Yes, if you used Spotify Beta it was very obvious. On release the library was reduced to a fragment of its former self. It was also something everyone said: "in the Beta they used the employees' MP3 libraries, that's why it used to be so good".

It was amazing. A massive library of obscure releases across all genres. Merzbow box set, thousands and thousands of country LPs, music from African and Asian countries. Gradually it got whittled down to what certain labels would agree to.
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