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Get started making music

learningmusic.ableton.com

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Re: Get started making music

#441

Post by dahart »

elihu wrote: post #401
dahart wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another way to look at it is that the current notation system isn't the best overall, it's just the most tolerable trade-off between a bunch of mutually-incompatible requirements. Isn't most tolerable trade-off between multually-incompatible requirements another way of saying "best overall"? Totally agreed there are useful local overrides of standard notation. Tablature is one example, and there are others. I would…

> Isn't most tolerable trade-off between multually-incompatible requirements another way of saying "best overall"? I could have said that better. What I meant was that standard notation isn't better than every other system according to every metric we could use to compare such things. Gary Garrett has more lattice demos on Youtube. Here's one that's an animation of an example in Harmonic Experience by W. A. Mathieu (…

> What I meant was that standard notation isn't better than every other system according to every metric we could use to compare such things.

This is totally true; tablature is better for beginning guitar players to learn to play specific songs on the guitar.

The only reason tablature doesn't supplant standard notation is that the metric under which it's superior is much narrower -- it's only for guitars, and only better than standard notation for beginners.

I don't think standard notation is necessarily the best overall, by I do think it happens to be the best overall, the best we've got today. And I'm not convinced it will ever become a choice, as opposed to standard notation evolving like it has in the past to incorporate new ideas.

Thanks for the explanation of the lattic layouts; I hadn't noticed the triangle orientation part, I only got as far as seeing that horizontal lines formed the circle of fifths. I can't tell what the plus and minus symbols mean, do you know? Usually those are used for diminished and augmented chords and not single notes, so is Bb- another name for A that is useful under the lattice system?

Re: Get started making music

#442

Post by fb03 »

louthy wrote: post #438
fb03 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something I struggle as a weekend hobbyist musician: There is some kind of black art involved in making music, in how to get that sound you enjoy on the music you like (which is probably the music that inspires you to make music, at least in my case). What I found was that as your music making experience unfolds, you start amassing these little tricks here and there and they're only yours, usually tied to you…

Picking up an analogue synth with all the knobs on the front is a good way to get your head around sound design, and very quickly discovering what does what (sound-wise). An oscilloscope on the output also allows you to see what is physically happening. VSTs tend to 'get in the way' because of the interface, but obviously you could get something like Diva and experiment in the same way. I think reading up on the phys…

> a bit of an epic studio

sir, you have already reached it: it is fucking epic, wow! Congratulations, it must be really fun being on that room, and it must be difficult getting out of it hehehe.

I want to get more into the hardware side of music making but being cost efficient is paramount to getting up and running in the cheapest way possible, specially (in my case) this is a hobby I consider myself 'just starting out'. If I have some cash to invest in it, I go to what will give me the most return (what will enable me to study the most). In my experience that meant DAW Software (Renoise), MIDI KEYS (Axiom 25), interface (Yamaha AG06) and a pair of monitors (Yamaha HS8's). Now that I've the basic kit 'sorted out' it is time to get some hardware.

What would you suggest? I've been eyeballing a KORG MS-20 mini but I don't know...

Re: Get started making music

#443

Post by louthy »

fb03 wrote: post #442
louthy wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picking up an analogue synth with all the knobs on the front is a good way to get your head around sound design, and very quickly discovering what does what (sound-wise). An oscilloscope on the output also allows you to see what is physically happening. VSTs tend to 'get in the way' because of the interface, but obviously you could get something like Diva and experiment in the same way. I think reading up on the phys…

> a bit of an epic studio sir, you have already reached it: it is fucking epic, wow! Congratulations, it must be really fun being on that room, and it must be difficult getting out of it hehehe. I want to get more into the hardware side of music making but being cost efficient is paramount to getting up and running in the cheapest way possible, specially (in my case) this is a hobby I consider myself 'just starting o…

> Congratulations, it must be really fun being on that room, and it must be difficult getting out of it hehehe.

Indeed it is!

Monitoring and room acoustics are definitely the very first thing to focus on. It was something I neglected for far too long. If you can't hear what's going on it doesn't matter how much gear you've got.

My favourite hands-on synth is the Roland Juno 106 [1], it's so god damn simple to use, everything is there, and so tweakable. They seem to have gone back up in price, but I picked up a pristine version for £600 off ebay. Obviously you need to be careful with older gear, and definitely try before you buy to make sure the thing isn't falling apart.

For mono synths my favourite is the Moog Sub 37 [2], it's knob central and sounds amazing, as all Moogs do. Although I was considering replacing it with the simpler (but more classic sounding) Model D which has just been re-issued.

The best modern analogue synth I have is the DSI OB-6 [3]. Although we're getting into the expensive end of the market here, I reckon it's a future classic. These things will hold their value very well. It's also got all the knobs and controls you'll need, but with slightly different filters to most other synth manufacturers, which is good for the contrast.

The Korg MS-20 would definitely be a good place to start (I haven't got one myself, but many friends have, and rate them highly), the fact that it has all the knobs on the front for every component of the synth and has the patchbay is perfect for experimentation.

You'll never regret getting an analogue synth, the sound just dwarfs what VSTs do imho. They're _alive_ in a way that you just don't hear from VSTs.

It's also interesting how different analogue compressors and EQs sound compared to VSTs. There's a rawness and sexiness that I have yet to achieve in-the-box (not saying it's impossible, just I'm too lazy to spend ages trying to achieve the sound I can get from hardware by simply switching it on).

> making but being cost efficient is paramount to getting up and running in the cheapest way possible

I have the Chandler Curve Bender EQ [4] which is based on the EMI Abbey Road desk that was used to record Beatles and Pink Floyd albums. It is super expensive (£5000+), but as soon as I heard what it could do I just needed it in my life. I call the on/off switch on the front of it the "it's just better switch" because as soon as I press it the sound in my studio turns 3D and everything is good in the world. I have the plugin version of it (UAD), which is very good, probably the best VST EQ I've heard - but it's not a patch on the gear and doesn't invoke that emotional feeling.

The reason I'm saying this is that yeah this stuff is expensive, some of it super expensive, but if you pick up one piece of gear a year and learn it inside out you'll be in a great place - creating awesome sounds quicker than you ever could before in-the-box. Most people I know with killer studios took a decade to get there.

[1] http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/juno106.php

[2] https://www.moogmusic.com/products/phattys/sub-37

[3] http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/dave-smith-instruments-o...

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUv9GtMlUwA

Re: Get started making music

#444

Post by teilo »

packetslave wrote: post #184
teilo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly people who have natural ability, and compose melodically, applying varying levels of knowledge in music theory. There are other people who can't make heads or tails out of a keyboard, compose a tune in their head, or understand chordal progressions, but nevertheless compose music in layers and still do extraordinary work. They find what they like by playing with notes on the screen. Joel Zimmerman…

Indeed. As a classically-trained musician, watching Joel's class on Masterclass and seeing him compose melodies by dragging notes around in Ableton until they "sound right to him" was eye-opening.

What surprised me was how he makes melody lines: Playing with chords until he likes the progression, and then pulling notes out of the chords to form a melody. And of course it makes sense on one level.

But I think melodically and tend to do a lot of counterpoint. Getting the chords out of my head and onto the screen is often the last thing I do. I don't know how well his approach would work with counterpoint, since counterpoint often creates and resolves dissonance using passing tones in double time.

Re: Get started making music

#445

Post by teilo »

H1Supreme wrote: post #238
lprubin wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many non classical musicians use other notations. For example, many guitarists and bassists use tab notation. It's simply a visual representation of the strings and a number for which fret to play. It's not as expressive but is far easier to get started with.

MOST guitar players I know use tabs. Personally, I'd rather see the chord type and root string. Ie. 6th string AMin, 4th string GMaj7. Tabs are almost as confusing because I memorized the notes, not the fret number.

Yes, thank you. This is particularly frustrating when you play with an alternate tuning such as DADGAD. Tabs are pretty much useless then.

Re: Get started making music

#446

Post by teilo »

Kiro wrote: post #300
tannhaeuser wrote: post #200

I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). I mean the conventional music notation represents tones in five lines, each capable of holding a "note" (is that the right word?) on a line, as well as in between lines, possibly pitched down and up, resp., by B's and sharps (depending on the tune etc.). Since wes…

DAWs don't use the classical notation system, neither does this tutorial, so I don't understand the context of your comment.

Well, technically some DAWs have a notation view (Logic and Sonar, for example), but it's pretty much useless.

Re: Get started making music

#447

Post by shallot_router »

exodust wrote: post #180
fil_a_del_fee_a wrote: post #73

I purchased the Ableton Push 2 a month or so ago and it has to be one of the most beautifully engineered pieces of equipment I have ever used. Look up the teardown video. Extremely simple, yet elegant. The Push 1 was created by Akai, and apparently Ableton wasn't satisfied, so they designed and built their own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItWQdJgXLs

Push 1 is still awesome and there's a ton on the second hand market for a fraction of the price of Push 2. You get way more than you pay for at those prices. I'm happy with mine, I like the pads and it's fine for sequencing and playing. It still receives updates and improvements. I do like the screen on Push 2, it looks like a nice update, but you are paying a lot for that screen, so you better use it! I also own a M…

Also a fan of the Maschine Mikro, though I don't like the Maschine software very much.

Re: Get started making music

#448

Post by teilo »

puranjay wrote: post #215
JasonSage wrote: post #35

This is some good coverage of the music theory behind songwriting, which is important in making songs that sound good. However, there's another part of making music which is not covered at all here, which is the actual engineering of sounds. Think of a sound in your head and recreate it digitally—it'll involve sampling and synthesizing, there's tons of filters and sound manipulation to go through, they all go by diff…

Oh man that is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down. Modern software synths are extremely complex, but also extremely powerful. I mean, look at the interface for Serum, probably the best synth on the market right now: https://d84g6yundlaof.cloudfront.net/assets/serum/serumall-b... It looks like an airplane's cockpit. Sound design is a whole another part of music. Most amateur musicians don't even bother with it be…

Serum is the easiest synth I have ever used. There are a lot of controls, but they all make sense. And if one is just starting out, they can ignore most of the controls and focus on just the basics: Waveform, envelop, filter. Then move to modulation starting with LFOs. (Modulation is where Serum really shines. It is literally drag-and-drop. Compared to the modulation matrices that many synths use, it's a cake walk.)

If you think Serum look complex, take a look at Zebra 2.

Re: Get started making music

#449

Post by fb03 »

louthy wrote: post #443
fb03 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a bit of an epic studio sir, you have already reached it: it is fucking epic, wow! Congratulations, it must be really fun being on that room, and it must be difficult getting out of it hehehe. I want to get more into the hardware side of music making but being cost efficient is paramount to getting up and running in the cheapest way possible, specially (in my case) this is a hobby I consider myself 'just starting o…

> Congratulations, it must be really fun being on that room, and it must be difficult getting out of it hehehe. Indeed it is! Monitoring and room acoustics are definitely the very first thing to focus on. It was something I neglected for far too long. If you can't hear what's going on it doesn't matter how much gear you've got. My favourite hands-on synth is the Roland Juno 106 [1], it's so god damn simple to use, ev…

Thank you for your tips, my friend! You are totally right: go slow, pick your gear one at a time and after some time I will have a great little home studio to play with :-)

Re: Get started making music

#450

Post by anjc »

compiler-guy wrote: post #294
ganonm wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have played piano and guitar (piano for almost my entire life and guitar for several years) and have used both tabular sheet music and traditional sheet music. Tabular sheet music is much easier to read initially as it provides a one to one mapping between the visual representation and the physical location of the notes - i.e. 5 frets along on this string . However, from my experience there is a cap on the 'bandwid…

Great point. To a first approximation: Tablature is a _physical description_ of how a particular stringed instrument should be played, and the notes are a side effect of that. It is instrument specific and it doesn't contain much information about the musical details of the piece. For example, tablature doesn't describe the key the piece is to be played in. To figure that out, you have to mentally translate the mecha…

What you're saying makes sense, but it applies oppositely too in that tab is non-physical and notation very physical. Example, if you see a scale in musical notation, it's immediately obvious that it's a scale just from a 50 millisecond glance, whereas in tab it's not obvious that it's a scale until you read/play through it.

When you become adept with musical notation, this is one of the primary hindrances of tab.

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