Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending • Hacker News Board

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#61

Post by CyberDildonics » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:30 PM UTC

The real travesty here is that calculators cost $100 USD. They have a Z80, some buttons wired up, and a very low res LCD screen. Students should be BUILDING these in their engineering classes. They must cost only a few dollars to make, it's disgusting that they cost so much because of forced lock in and requirements.

Maybe one of the first applications of RISC-V should be a fully open source graphing calculator. Then anyone could build one to the same spec and they would be cheap + help open source hardware.

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#62

Post by VLM » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:31 PM UTC

I find it interesting that all students had to pay $80 out of pocket for our TI-81 but the same school district a generation later hands out $800 ipads to entire classes like they're candy.

I used the same TI-81 from 7th thru 12th grade which was 6 years, but the refresh for ipads at the same district is a mere 4 years.

I can't help but notice the TI-81 was essentially kid proof and indestructible but the ipad is (intentionally) very delicate to drive sales.

Finally I think I used my TI-81 in math and science classes more hours per year than my son uses his ipad. Mostly we used the 81 to do math, mostly my son's school issued ipad is for "downtime" gaming (minecraft) and youtube watching with some casual internet surfing.

The tone of the article implies the $100 graphing calculator was a bad era, but its worth considering things have gotten much worse, not improved at all.

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#63

Post by fn » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:31 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #9

Related story (the author describing the TI monopoly jogged my memory): I am part of the generation that was required to buy a big blue or black graphing calculator. As a high schooler I was indignant that we were being told to buy from just one company. So, based on reviews posted in a variety of online forums, I bought an HP-48 instead of the specified TI. After telling all my friends that my new calculator was goi…

Honestly I still use my HP 48GX whenever I need a calculator.

It's so very useful for adding up columns of numbers when doing accounting and bookkeeping!

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#64

Post by walshemj » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #51

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just use a computer, since generally I'm already using it when I have a question, it has many more resources, and it's easier to program complex calculations in.

Computers aren't always available. Computers aren't as portable (though phones are as portable as these calculators). The tactile feedback of a calculator beats phones (for me) in the same way that a physical keyboard's feedback better enables touch typing compared to an on-screen keyboard. Computers don't lend themselves to being quickly pulled out in meetings for quick computations. Phones are a better alternative…

Add in RPN id buy on in a flash - time for a kickstarter :-)

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#65

Post by jerf » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #46

jerf wrote: post #3

Going digital would have some other advantages too. It would be easy to make a staged calculator where buttons only appear as you learn how to use them, for instance, so you don't stick a calculator in an Algebra II student's face that has stuff for calculus on it, which only contributes to the mystique of "math being hard". For a specialist who uses physical calculators all the time for serious computations, the adv…

It might just be me, but I read up on the buttons that I didn't understand yet. Some of them were really useful shortcuts that I wasn't supposed to know about.

I would fully support making it relatively easy to unlock those buttens, but, remember, we're educating not just "people who will eventually hang out on Hacker News". It is not reasonable to take the personal experiences of people here as a baseline for all education.

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#66

Post by maxerickson » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #56

adrianN wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might just be me, but I read up on the buttons that I didn't understand yet. Some of them were really useful shortcuts that I wasn't supposed to know about.

Indeed. Learning something earlier than planned is a feature, not a bug.

The way to do it would be to have an interactive assessment system that activated features.

Prompts for exploratory learning could be presented in places other than the calculator keyboard.

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#67

Post by jerf » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #8

jerf wrote: post #3

Going digital would have some other advantages too. It would be easy to make a staged calculator where buttons only appear as you learn how to use them, for instance, so you don't stick a calculator in an Algebra II student's face that has stuff for calculus on it, which only contributes to the mystique of "math being hard". For a specialist who uses physical calculators all the time for serious computations, the adv…

Pretty much anyone working non trivially in STEM fields would find a physical calculator usefull - Acountants would be another group. Which reminds me I must see if I can get a replacement battery for my old HP RPN Calculator

I do think people are not quite understanding that when I say "niche within a niche", I do that with the understanding that it does in fact exist. Had I meant to say "nobody", I would have said that. But it is a niche within a niche. STEM is certainly way to expansive; I'm STEM and I haven't had a use for a calculator since high schools were mandating them. It's certainly a niche within STEM, which is a niche. And the accountant's desks I've seen lately do not have calculators on them, and if they do, it's 4-function calcs.

Also, this is HN, so of course the people occupying that niche within a niche will pop up and say "But I use a physical calculator all the time!" That doesn't make me wrong, it just means that you're here. I'd also guess, with all due respect, because I know how this sort of thing goes, that at least some of the people who might claim they have a calculator they use all the time actually use it, say, every few months. Only a few people will seriously be using them all the time.

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#68

Post by QuarterReptile » Wed, May 10, 2017, 2:53 PM UTC

upofadown wrote: post #32

I am not sure exactly what is being implied here. Schools are still insisting that students have to use a TI-84 but that an app of some kind that emulates a TI-84 is OK? Not sure how that makes sense if true. Do schools actually teach classes on how to use a calculator? Is this just another way that schools are not dealing with the fact that computers exist?

Based on my experiences, it's less likely "calculator class" and more likely "integrals are done by pressing shift+ln(), then right arrow to enter the limits, then comma followed by the variable" (this is an example not following any real calculator) during calculus. So rather than teaching the topic fully and then letting students figure out how to aid themselves with calculators or computers, they teach how to do the technique on the dominant calculator. So if you're not inclined to read manuals or troubleshoot or think about what you're doing, having a Casio instead of a TI would be big trouble.

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#69

Post by pflats » Wed, May 10, 2017, 3:14 PM UTC

CyberDildonics wrote: post #61

The real travesty here is that calculators cost $100 USD. They have a Z80, some buttons wired up, and a very low res LCD screen. Students should be BUILDING these in their engineering classes. They must cost only a few dollars to make, it's disgusting that they cost so much because of forced lock in and requirements. Maybe one of the first applications of RISC-V should be a fully open source graphing calculator. Then…

Hey now, the newest TI 84s use the eZ80!

Re: Reign of the $100 graphing calculator is ending

#70

Post by mcphage » Wed, May 10, 2017, 3:17 PM UTC

loki22 wrote: post #4

How is replacing a offline device with a connected app better? The school boards should simply certify multiple devices for use in the exams. Hardware is primitive and some enterprising company can devise a much nicer interface and probably at 1/4th price.

> Hardware is primitive and some enterprising company can devise a much nicer interface and probably at 1/4th price.

But nobody bothers, because they all know that HP can offer it at 1/4 the price, too—and less. Nobody touches HP's margins, because HP can survive on much smaller margins than any startup ever could. Why start a price war you could only lose?