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Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

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Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#91
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could try to be a bit more cynical you'll see that HS is preparation for most jobs. We line all your desks up in nice neat rows, conformity is mandatory so we may even put you in uniforms. We don't want you ever questioning authority. We want you to sit here quietly and do mindless work for countless hours with minimal rewards. Most jobs out there are not inspiring or in anyone's intellectual interests.

Don't forget the open office, the clock is the definition of successful working, authoritarian discipline. Add in a social / political culture that is right out of middle school behavior at the worse employers...

I think if that's not what your job is like, then you're probably in the vast minority in the world, probably even in Western culture unless you're a standard deviation above the norm in IQ or generational wealth.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#92
post #14

Add metal detectors, wands, and barbed wire to the mix and you'll really know what it's like for some inner city high school kids (like myself once upon a time). Kids today have more time away from school than I did, I had more time away from school than my parents did, this article wasn't much of an eye opener, sorry. Personally, high school is a waste, a transition period for students to truly find what they want o…

We had security theater in the burbs, in fact we probably had more and better guards and metal detectors. The big difference I see as an older parent is police involvement, at the good schools the cops occasionally lay down the law on loitering, possession, occasional fist fight requiring no medical treatment. The bad schools are full of daily police calls for all of the above plus stabbings, graffiti, handgun possession, rape, hospitalized beatings. It seems the biggest danger at the good schools is boredom and rebellion, and at the bad schools the biggest problem is physical danger.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#93
An interesting analysis would be to take the 87 (and counting) comments here on this submission and compare them with the 178 comments from some 900 days ago.

Can NLP do this? Can comments there be compared with comments here to see if there is a matching?

That would be a fascinating exercise. Anyone up for it?

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#94
post #74
post #40

This stuff seems to me to be inherent to institutionalized education. When you have an instituion with lots of kids to teach, what option is there but to have them all sit down all day and be passive. Also dealing with lots of kids and their misbehavior and having to get through a lesson plan at the same time would make adults feel like they have to be strict and direct "shh" towards the kids. When this organization…

> home school seems like the the only real solution Many parents/guardians are not suited to teaching a modern curriculum, or their talents are best employed in other areas. There are good schools, but they are rare and often expensive. Schooling co-ops are an interesting option, but again I think you have to get lucky with the available talent pool.

Parental involvement in education is kind of like eating healthy, in that its expensive and time consuming and not always fun, but the alternative being failure and disaster and death is kind of motivational. The stick is mightier than the carrot.

That also assumes a modern curriculum is good. It is highly optimized, but optimized to what? Like all group activities the odds of the group goals matching your own is very low.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#95
post #75

So basically, she thought it was OK to make fun of students when they asked a question that had been asked already. Wow, so sorry I missed being in her class...

Some context that may be relevant. Something like the following is not uncommon, at pretty much any grade level: Teacher T, Student S (not always the same student), Students Ss T: "I've put the exact steps you need to follow on the board, right here. Repeat that back to me." Ss: "The steps are on the board." T: "Great. Any questions? No? Makes sense? Cool, get started!" (walks among students to check work and help as…

How long have you been teaching grad students?

(In a non-personal non-doxing manner, I'm just saying you read like my sister-in-law kinda and she's got 20 years in. Which sounds like a prison term. Um...)

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#96
post #95
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context that may be relevant. Something like the following is not uncommon, at pretty much any grade level: Teacher T, Student S (not always the same student), Students Ss T: "I've put the exact steps you need to follow on the board, right here. Repeat that back to me." Ss: "The steps are on the board." T: "Great. Any questions? No? Makes sense? Cool, get started!" (walks among students to check work and help as…

How long have you been teaching grad students? (In a non-personal non-doxing manner, I'm just saying you read like my sister-in-law kinda and she's got 20 years in. Which sounds like a prison term. Um...)

I don't, but I know several teachers, and am married to one. Anecdotes from 3rd-9th grade, all running pretty much like that. I gather some level of this occurs almost daily. Most of them teach in "good" schools, too, so these are the students who are easy to teach.

(for the record, I don't think any of them actually drink at school)

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#97

Sitting for hours is bad ok... For a long time I was a smoker, I would often walk out of the building with others, and take a break. Talking about their or my problem of the minute. One of the other engineers who DIDNT smoke started coming out with us when we went. After a few weeks he noted out loud how his productivity had been UP since he started taking the journey with us. It seems counter intuitive that getting…

Taking a break during the class? Weren't you missing out some essential part of lesson? My friend doesn't smoke but he often walked out to listened a metal music with high volume. When a song ended, then he got back to the class. Since one short break for a 3-hours class is crazy.

I am saying that the lesson applies in the "real world" as well. We as adults should not try and sit for hours on end every day and expect to remain productive!

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#98
post #20

I expected some new realizations here, but all I could find was a list of the 3 most obvious things about students. Do we really need to follow students to learn that they sit a lot and listen a lot?

"they sit a lot and listen a lot"

For most of our couple hundred thousand year existence as a species we've been very successful using every learning technique except "sit down shut up and listen for a couple hours". In fact we've only done it for about a century almost exclusively with lower to middle class white European kids and all that's certain about that technique is its mostly resulted in the production of a lot of cannon fodder and factory (now cubical) drones. For most of our species history the shut up and listen technique has been limited to religion and brainwashing; perhaps there is no difference.

Its likely that what we arrogantly claim is education or training is merely implantation of weird religious beliefs via brainwashing, as opposed to actual education. Does it matter if the kid mindlessly repeats that 2+2=4, or the kid irrationally believes 2+2=4, or the kid understands how 2+2=4? In a world where all that matters is the correct oval is filled in on the endlessly growing number of standardized tests, I'm not optimistic anyone is learning anything other than to fill in ovals and parrot a belief in whatever this hour's authority claims is today's truth. Until tomorrow when it'll all be different.

This might explain how some new grads are so hopelessly useless in that perhaps they absorbed the "true believer" aesthetic and therefore were passed along, but they were never actually educated, never actually learned, perhaps algebra, or programming, or philosophy, or politics, or any other topic.

"I learned how to tell the teacher what they wanted to hear, then forgot it as completely as possible so as to endlessly repeat" could result in a very successful student career yet not so successful post-graduation.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#99
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13 years in a designated place of learning is worth less than 1 year in unstructured freedom, according to OP. It's ironic because for OP a place where you are suppose to learn is not a good place to learn

I learned more about technical writing from The Elements of Style and a one-semester university course that I ever did from 13 years of public schooling. I learned more about creative writing from being an immortal on a MUD and contributing to the underground newspaper than from anything I ever did in classes. What I learned from the public school system was that I was not a good writer, and didn't know how to apprec…

"canonical masterwork"

Not a constant, there isn't even an ideal.

I had the worst stereotype of a 9th grade history teacher you can imagine with a curriculum of a dumbed down textbook written at about 80 IQ level to maximize sales and tests consisting mostly of matching names and dates. I almost failed that class...

We can't teach dead white male texts for political reasons anymore. Nothing motivates a white male teenager like telling him a book is forbidden. I'm reminded of a nearly illiterate friend who forced himself to read Huckleberry Finn solely because it was banned. So needless to say as a little rebel I grew up reading and enjoying Plutarch, Xenophon, Gibbon, Herodotus. In a different era under superior political leadership, those books would have been considered masterpieces. Today they are considered fuel for book burnings solely for racial reasons.

There's no constant to "canonical masterwork" but if there is any constant at all, its probably that your school textbook was not a "canonical masterwork", LOL.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#100
post #20

I expected some new realizations here, but all I could find was a list of the 3 most obvious things about students. Do we really need to follow students to learn that they sit a lot and listen a lot?

I think experiencing it is stronger than abstractly thinking about it.
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