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Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

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Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#71

Post by Existenceblinks »

zer00eyz wrote: post #16

Sitting for hours is bad ok... For a long time I was a smoker, I would often walk out of the building with others, and take a break. Talking about their or my problem of the minute. One of the other engineers who DIDNT smoke started coming out with us when we went. After a few weeks he noted out loud how his productivity had been UP since he started taking the journey with us. It seems counter intuitive that getting…

Taking a break during the class? Weren't you missing out some essential part of lesson?

My friend doesn't smoke but he often walked out to listened a metal music with high volume. When a song ended, then he got back to the class. Since one short break for a 3-hours class is crazy.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#72

Post by Consultant32452 »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #66
Consultant32452 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never had incompetent coworkers? You've never worked at a megacorp where it was basically impossible to get fired? One of the things you could've done for your group projects is be the manager yourself. Assign tasks and divvy up the work load based on skill/knowledge. Obviously, don't give the doofus anything challenging. 99% of the time people are willing to do whatever they're explicitly instructed to do. Tr…

I would never work at a megacorp. That sounds miserable. And why are you assuming I didn't try managing projects? Of course I did. I would always divvy up the work in such a way that'd I'd have the more difficult portion and I'd keep tabs on people. And when I'd tell my teachers that someone wasn't pulling their weight, they'd say it's my problem. I took _one_ class in college where the professors actually took that…

Apparently you failed to motivate your classmates. How often did you not put someone's name on the finished project?

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#73

Post by magic_beans »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #45
magic_beans wrote: post #42

Why do teachers always think group projects and in-class demonstrations are great ideas? I hated that as a student. I found those classes to be really shallow, because groups of students rarely had good ideas or grasped the material well enough to present on it. A good teacher can spend a whole class lecturing and is able to engage their students. We don't need to fix class structure. We need to fix teachers.

Because you get group projects at work, And the groups at work rarely have good ideas or grasp material well enough to work on it.

HS is not preparation for work. It would be more useful if it was, actually.

But it's not, and it doesn't pretend to be. My high school had some really knowledgable and inspiring teachers (and many not so!).

Some of those great teachers were able to plant seeds of thought with their lectures, and those were some of the most valuable lessons I had.

I wish HS could involve inspiring, knowledgeable teachers, plus self-study in one's own intellectual interests.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#74

Post by _rpd »

vivekd wrote: post #40

This stuff seems to me to be inherent to institutionalized education. When you have an instituion with lots of kids to teach, what option is there but to have them all sit down all day and be passive. Also dealing with lots of kids and their misbehavior and having to get through a lesson plan at the same time would make adults feel like they have to be strict and direct "shh" towards the kids. When this organization…

> home school seems like the the only real solution

Many parents/guardians are not suited to teaching a modern curriculum, or their talents are best employed in other areas. There are good schools, but they are rare and often expensive. Schooling co-ops are an interesting option, but again I think you have to get lucky with the available talent pool.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#75

Post by ashark »

Macsenour wrote: post #44

So basically, she thought it was OK to make fun of students when they asked a question that had been asked already. Wow, so sorry I missed being in her class...

Some context that may be relevant. Something like the following is not uncommon, at pretty much any grade level:

Teacher T, Student S (not always the same student), Students Ss

T: "I've put the exact steps you need to follow on the board, right here. Repeat that back to me."

Ss: "The steps are on the board."

T: "Great. Any questions? No? Makes sense? Cool, get started!" (walks among students to check work and help as needed)

(10 seconds later)

S: What do we do first?

T: It's on the board. Right there. The step labelled "1". And first on the list. Is there part of it you don't understand?

S: Oh, no, I just didn't know it was there.

(2 minutes later)

T: Uh, are you done?

S: No. I just didn't know what to do next.

T: Did... you do all the steps? On the board?

S: Oh, right! No, just step 1.

(5 minutes later)

S: Mr/Mrs T, what's step 3?

T: Did you check the board?

S: Uhhhhh, oh yeah.

(this happens some more. 6 hours later)

T: (grading papers. Several students missed one or more steps.)

(next day)

S: Why is my grade so low?

T: You didn't do step 4. At all.

S: I didn't know what to do there.

T: (points at list, still on board)

S: Oooooh, yeah.

T: (sneaks whisky from desk to make it through the day without killing self or others)

[EDIT] formatting

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#76

Post by Consultant32452 »

magic_beans wrote: post #73
Consultant32452 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you get group projects at work, And the groups at work rarely have good ideas or grasp material well enough to work on it.

HS is not preparation for work. It would be more useful if it was, actually. But it's not, and it doesn't pretend to be. My high school had some really knowledgable and inspiring teachers (and many not so!). Some of those great teachers were able to plant seeds of thought with their lectures, and those were some of the most valuable lessons I had. I wish HS could involve inspiring, knowledgeable teachers, plus self-s…

If you could try to be a bit more cynical you'll see that HS is preparation for most jobs. We line all your desks up in nice neat rows, conformity is mandatory so we may even put you in uniforms. We don't want you ever questioning authority. We want you to sit here quietly and do mindless work for countless hours with minimal rewards. Most jobs out there are not inspiring or in anyone's intellectual interests.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#77

Post by thesuitonym »

vivekd wrote: post #40

This stuff seems to me to be inherent to institutionalized education. When you have an instituion with lots of kids to teach, what option is there but to have them all sit down all day and be passive. Also dealing with lots of kids and their misbehavior and having to get through a lesson plan at the same time would make adults feel like they have to be strict and direct "shh" towards the kids. When this organization…

I wasn't are that the Department of Transportation ran the schools, or are you honestly implying that the same sort of organizational structure is at place because they're both "the gubment"?

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#78

Post by wvenable »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #70
wvenable wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Group projects at work are different because everyone has a different role. In school, everyone must have the same role in order to equally learn the material. Any divisions are arbitrary and the consequences of not putting in effort are minimal.

>Any divisions are arbitrary and the consequences of not putting in effort are minimal. That's been my experience at work too. Sure, I might be a developer, but I'm often doing PM, QA, or BA tasks. Eventually crappy coworkers might get the boot, but almost never within the time frame of a single project.

The argument is that this kind of group project arrangement is crappy; It's possible for work group projects to be terrible for the same reasons but it's absolutely guaranteed in school projects.

If anything, we are just training students that your terrible group work experiences are normal.

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#79

Post by anotheryou »

magic_beans wrote: post #42

Why do teachers always think group projects and in-class demonstrations are great ideas? I hated that as a student. I found those classes to be really shallow, because groups of students rarely had good ideas or grasped the material well enough to present on it. A good teacher can spend a whole class lecturing and is able to engage their students. We don't need to fix class structure. We need to fix teachers.

I hated them too.

Think of a meeting without clear hierarchy, with a random team (so no "usual roles") and the stress to handle people that are not entirely your first choice...

But even more I hated psycho-games. Some rules or some concept you have to follow without being told what it is good for in the end. ("Write down whay you think about XY, now exchange these with your neighbour. I will tell you what to do with it later")

Re: Teacher spends two days as a student (2014)

#80

Post by Consultant32452 »

wvenable wrote: post #78
Consultant32452 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Any divisions are arbitrary and the consequences of not putting in effort are minimal. That's been my experience at work too. Sure, I might be a developer, but I'm often doing PM, QA, or BA tasks. Eventually crappy coworkers might get the boot, but almost never within the time frame of a single project.

The argument is that this kind of group project arrangement is crappy; It's possible for work group projects to be terrible for the same reasons but it's absolutely guaranteed in school projects. If anything, we are just training students that your terrible group work experiences are normal.

>If anything, we are just training students that your terrible group work experiences are normal.

Oh, absolutely. That's what the whole school experience is about. Think about it. We sit all your desks in nice neat rows. You have to ask permission even to use the restroom. We demand conformity, maybe even put you in a uniform. Don't you dare ever question authority. Sit here quietly for hours on end doing mindless tasks for meaningless rewards.

If that's not some reasonable analogy to what your job is like, then you are probably at least a standard deviation outside the norm in IQ or creativity.

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