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What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

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Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#51
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have some more information on this? Our first will arrive within the next 2 weeks and this sounds really interesting.

This British study calls it roughly a break-even, mostly depending on the energy spent on drying the diapers. http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/SCHO0808BO...

From http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/SCHO0808BO...

>The average 2006 disposable nappy would result in a global warming impact of approximately 550kg of carbon dioxide equivalents used over the two and a half years a child is typically in nappies. The global warming impact from disposable nappies use has decreased since the previous study due to manufacturing changes and a 13.5 per cent reduction in the weight of nappies.

and then for cloth nappies

>For reusable nappies, the baseline scenario based on average washer and drier use produced a global warming impact of approximately 570kg of carbon dioxide equivalents. However, the study showed that the impacts for reusable nappies are highly dependent on the way they are laundered. Washing the nappies in fuller loads or line-drying them outdoors all the time (ignoring UK climatic conditions for the purposes of illustration) was found to reduce this figure by 16 per cent. Combining three of the beneficial scenarios (washing nappies in a fuller load, outdoor line drying all of the time, and reusing nappies on a second child) would lower the global warming impact by 40 per cent from the baseline scenario, or some 200kg of carbon dioxide equivalents over the two and a half years, equal to driving a car approximately 1,000 km.

FWIW we buy compostable disposables to limit landfill impact (contrary to another comment landfill area is not infinite) and bought our "real" nappies on ebay and have then reused them. We don't tumble dry nappies (UK) and practice what's considered early potty training which reduces cleaning requirements¹.

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¹Clearly reducing nappy changing as much as possible and reducing the period of nappy wearing has a great impact.

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#52
post #35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have some more information on this? Our first will arrive within the next 2 weeks and this sounds really interesting.

Oh, this is a massive debate, and more emotional than rational. "But cloth should be better! It just seems like it should be better!" Wikipedia is probably as good an introduction as any: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_diaper#Debate Also, cloth diapers cause more rashes. (Unless there is an allergy to the disposable one, in which case it causes more.)

>cloth diapers cause more rashes.

I'd heard the contrary (we use both cloth and compostable disposables), any citations?

I can see how those using strong washing detergents could have problems, we use ecover and haven't had nappy rash problems (anecdotal I know).

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#53
post #14
post #11

Wait, they fly airplanes full of diapers to the West Coast!? I wonder what quantity of jet fuel exhaust gets spewed into the atmosphere, just so you can get diapers the next day . Even with the increased per-worker efficiency, is the overall environmental impact worse or better than cloth systems, or simply getting them from the corner store?

Cloth diapers are worse for the environment compared to disposable, no matter how you get it. (Disposable uses landfill space of which we have unlimited quantities, but cloth uses water which is in short supply. Also cloth uses more energy.) But it's easy to tell if this method is better or worse for the environment: You have to pay for jet fuel, or truck fuel, or whatever. All forms of energy cost about the same. If…

See my other comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1429494

Provided the nappies get re-used, you have a moderately good washing machine and don't tumble dry all the time then cloth are better - it's a very detailed study.

In addition if one has an A+ rated washer always line dries, reuses nappies for a second child (eg we bought ours 2nd hand on ebay and reused them and will sell them on or use them as clean-up cloths) then cloth nappies are substantially better.

>If it's cheaper to get it delivered via next day air, then it must have used less energy.

This appears to be specious reasoning. A company can charge more or less for delivery for competition purposes the actual cost of transportation is usually obscured. I can fly the 200mi to my in-laws more cheaply than taking the train, I don't believe it uses less energy to fly.

See for example http://www.seat61.com/CO2flights.htm which gives a figure of 90% CO2 saving by train (CO2 emission correlating with energy expense seems reasonable).

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#54
Can you imagine working in that warehouse? A never-ending series of tasks brought to you by a being that never stops, sleeps or wants to know what you're doing at the weekend. A job that requires no intelligence and is endlessly monotonous. That is a vision of hell. I think they have solved one problem but created a dozen others.

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#55
post #14
post #11

Wait, they fly airplanes full of diapers to the West Coast!? I wonder what quantity of jet fuel exhaust gets spewed into the atmosphere, just so you can get diapers the next day . Even with the increased per-worker efficiency, is the overall environmental impact worse or better than cloth systems, or simply getting them from the corner store?

Cloth diapers are worse for the environment compared to disposable, no matter how you get it. (Disposable uses landfill space of which we have unlimited quantities, but cloth uses water which is in short supply. Also cloth uses more energy.) But it's easy to tell if this method is better or worse for the environment: You have to pay for jet fuel, or truck fuel, or whatever. All forms of energy cost about the same. If…

If it's cheaper to get it delivered via next day air, then it must have used less energy.

Big if. No shipper ever reveals their true costs to you, they always build in some margin. An amusing illustration of this is UPS. Internally 2-day shipping costs more than overnight (they have to pay for warehouse space to keep the packages around for a day), but they charge more for 1-day.

In the case of Diapers.com, no option is provided to let you get any other kind of shipment speed. That's because they see their competition as regular retail stores. And the cost savings of eliminating the retailer are enough that they can justify much higher shipping costs.

For a realistic comparison see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency_in_transportati... (and keep in mind that the true costs for transporting stuff by aircraft can depend more on volume than weight).

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#56
post #43
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Assume that the logical conclusion of robots doing people's job is that nobody will have a job. Since that means that nobody will eat (or buy the things that the robots are making), we will need to at some point separate the acts of earning money from doing work. Put another way, we should aim for a world in which nobody works, as the robots are doing all the work.

That's not what this is, though. This is just factory workers that put a box on a cart for 70 hours a week losing their jobs because a robot can do it more efficiently. We're far off from robots creating robots that do things like that, so there are always going to be other jobs until then. They can find other jobs that are actually productive and worthwhile. This is why I find redistribution of wealth so ridiculous; there has to be someone working to generate wealth for himself, so why can't others just work like he is so they can generate their own wealth rather than stealing his?

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#57
post #11

Wait, they fly airplanes full of diapers to the West Coast!? I wonder what quantity of jet fuel exhaust gets spewed into the atmosphere, just so you can get diapers the next day . Even with the increased per-worker efficiency, is the overall environmental impact worse or better than cloth systems, or simply getting them from the corner store?

The lowest-environmental-impact choice is obviously no diaper at all: http://diaperfreebaby.org/

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#58
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, this is a massive debate, and more emotional than rational. "But cloth should be better! It just seems like it should be better!" Wikipedia is probably as good an introduction as any: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth_diaper#Debate Also, cloth diapers cause more rashes. (Unless there is an allergy to the disposable one, in which case it causes more.)

>cloth diapers cause more rashes. I'd heard the contrary (we use both cloth and compostable disposables), any citations? I can see how those using strong washing detergents could have problems, we use ecover and haven't had nappy rash problems (anecdotal I know).

Yes, here: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/801222-overview

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This British study calls it roughly a break-even, mostly depending on the energy spent on drying the diapers. http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/SCHO0808BO...

From http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/SCHO0808BO... > The average 2006 disposable nappy would result in a global warming impact of approximately 550kg of carbon dioxide equivalents used over the two and a half years a child is typically in nappies. The global warming impact from disposable nappies use has decreased since the previous study due to manufacturing changes and a 13.5 per cent reduction in…

Why focus just on global warming? Water shortage is a far far far larger problem. I know it's not you, but this obsession with global warming is horrible. There are far worse problems.

And landfill space is infinite. The earth is enormous. There are just political objections to landfills so they keep them in short supply. For example you could fill old coal mines with landfill and never run out of space. You could undo mountaintop removal by filling it with dilute garbage, then a deep layer of topsoil.

There really is an infinite amount of space - we can't make more garbage than there is matter on the earth. So whatever material we make, we automatically have room to bury it.

Re: What’s The Secret Behind Diapers.com Success? A Kiva Robot Warehouse

#60
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloth diapers are worse for the environment compared to disposable, no matter how you get it. (Disposable uses landfill space of which we have unlimited quantities, but cloth uses water which is in short supply. Also cloth uses more energy.) But it's easy to tell if this method is better or worse for the environment: You have to pay for jet fuel, or truck fuel, or whatever. All forms of energy cost about the same. If…

See my other comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1429494 Provided the nappies get re-used, you have a moderately good washing machine and don't tumble dry all the time then cloth are better - it's a very detailed study. In addition if one has an A+ rated washer always line dries, reuses nappies for a second child (eg we bought ours 2nd hand on ebay and reused them and will sell them on or use them as clean-u…

If trains use 90% less energy, then why aren't they 90% cheaper? I mean the cost to run a train is almost entirely fuel, and the same is true for an airplane. (There is some staff, but it's about the same for both.)

So without even reading the study I'm already sure it's wrong.

And I found it - they assumed a load factor of 100% for trains, but 72% for airplanes. When actually in the real world airplanes are pretty full and trains are not - but they run them anyway. And trains will probably use more fuel if they were full, so their entire study is worthless.

(They do it a lot in the study - they use realistic or worse case number for planes and cars, but best case numbers for trains. And explain it by saying "This is how we can make the rail system better.")

Oh, and BTW the study they rely on doesn't say 90% anywhere. They just pulled that number out of thin air.

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