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Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

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Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cast iron is better than ceramics (and will never crack!) but the Steel still comes out on top. Wish I'd have known this before buying my Lodge. This article also links to a roundup of all the other types of pans Kenji tried. http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/10/the-pizza-lab-...

Doesn't that link suggest that it's primarily the mass, not the material? Steel is just an iron alloy after all, I don't think its thermal properties are much different (but 15lbs of steel will transfer more heat to your pizza than 10lbs of cast iron). Also cast iron can certainly crack, if it's dropped on a hard surface, or thermally shocked (but it is tougher than most ceramics).

From the article "The idea is that all else being equal—same recipe, same oven temperature—because of its superior thermal qualities (higher volumetric heat capacity, as well as higher conductivity than stone), you can cook pizzas faster than you'd be able to with a regular stone."

So it is thermal capacity plus conductivity together.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way to hack that line for Emilia's? I start dialing at 4pm and get a 7:30pm pie.... Awesome place though - totally worth it. Between Emilia's the Cheeseboard and Zachary's Berkeley has a pretty awesome choice of Pizza. Boot and Shoe is also opening a location on Shattuck ....

Also Artichoke Basille! Not fancy at all, but it's a real NY chain and they have authentic-tasting slices and Sicilian squares. (Plus monstrosities like their artichoke pizza, but I admit it's an occasional guilty pleasure...)

Unlike the OP dough, the pizzas at artichokes in NYC has always been mediocre. Going west on 14th st to the Joe's will get a better crisp slice in a hotter oven. I can't imagine that they are better in SF if that's what we're talking about, but I guess it's possible.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for Emilia's (just don't forgot to call ahead), adding Casey's (one of the best pizzas I've had on any coast) and Pizza Hacker (though it has a bit of California flair). I'm so happy the East Coast no longer has a monopoly on amazing pizza! I'm not the biggest fan of Tony's margherita, but it seems the dude can make a perfect pizza in practically any style. Capo's is the best deep dish pizza I've ever had, includi…

Is there a way to hack that line for Emilia's? I start dialing at 4pm and get a 7:30pm pie.... Awesome place though - totally worth it. Between Emilia's the Cheeseboard and Zachary's Berkeley has a pretty awesome choice of Pizza. Boot and Shoe is also opening a location on Shattuck ....

there are in fact a few emilia's hacks and secrets -- but I can't share them here! the most important one is getting to know keith :)

berkeley does indeed have good pizza. outside the neopolitan pizzerias, gioia is excellent, arinell is one of my favorites for a NY slice (same as the one on 16th & valencia), and artichoke basille's isn't great but for a gigantic margherita slice at 3am, I'll take it! make sure to check out benchmark in kensingson (basically berkeley) too.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Artichoke Basille! Not fancy at all, but it's a real NY chain and they have authentic-tasting slices and Sicilian squares. (Plus monstrosities like their artichoke pizza, but I admit it's an occasional guilty pleasure...)

Unlike the OP dough, the pizzas at artichokes in NYC has always been mediocre. Going west on 14th st to the Joe's will get a better crisp slice in a hotter oven. I can't imagine that they are better in SF if that's what we're talking about, but I guess it's possible.

Yes — but we don't get a lot of genuine NY slices over here on the West Coast!

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#135
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

I see a lot of recipes recommending autolyse in both bread and pizza. I'm not sure I understand what the benefit is in a recipe which is already high hydration and has a long rest. E.g. my typical sourdough recipe is something like: feed starter generously, let sit overnight. Build dough with bubbly starter, bread flour, additional water, some rye or whole wheat. Bulk ferment for most of the day, with about 4 folds i…

> I see a lot of recipes recommending autolyse in both bread and pizza. I'm not sure I understand what the benefit is in a recipe which is already high hydration and has a long rest.

I am not an expert, but I make bread a few times a month, and mix by hand. Here's my mental model: (it's roughly as scientific as a lumberjack who has fairies who tell him which way the tree wants to fall, so YMMV)

The gluten wants to form straight chains. That's it's lowest energy state. If you make a wet poulish and just let it sit, the molecules can rotate slightly to find that low energy state, and you get some nice long chains that form with no work.

If you make a dry dough and mix it right away, you are constantly breaking and reorienting those glutens, and the molecules can't "feel" the fields where they are at the lowest energy. Essentially, the kinetic energy you are adding is so much greater than the subtle push and pull of the other molecules that you end up connecting the glutens together in a much more random way. You get kinky chains instead of straight ones.

It's a little like a crystal forming in a solution... if you let it sit, the molecules will find their nice crystalline structure. If you put it in the blender, you'll just get a crystal puree.

One thing that has changed about my breadmaking over the years, is that I used to think the earliest steps didn't matter as much, because it all gets kneaded, then punched down, kneaded some more, formed, etc. I thought the structure all happens during the final formation and rise. But now I think about the structure of the dough from the very first moment the water meets the flour. I think of every single time I touch the dough, every single stretch and fold as part of the final structure of the loaf.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#136
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way to hack that line for Emilia's? I start dialing at 4pm and get a 7:30pm pie.... Awesome place though - totally worth it. Between Emilia's the Cheeseboard and Zachary's Berkeley has a pretty awesome choice of Pizza. Boot and Shoe is also opening a location on Shattuck ....

there are in fact a few emilia's hacks and secrets -- but I can't share them here! the most important one is getting to know keith :) berkeley does indeed have good pizza. outside the neopolitan pizzerias, gioia is excellent, arinell is one of my favorites for a NY slice (same as the one on 16th & valencia), and artichoke basille's isn't great but for a gigantic margherita slice at 3am, I'll take it! make sure to che…

I quite like Benchmark as well, and Little Star, while hit or miss, can be excellent. Not New York style, but Zachary's has fantastic stuffed Chicago-style. Pizza Moda has turned into a very satisfying and reliable pizza joint in the last year. Can't stand Cheeseboard pizza/hype at all.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#137

Folks who know pizza: What can those us with regular ovens do? You know, the sort of oven you find in most kitchens that top out at 250C (500F)?

For me, part of it is simply tempering my expectations. I don't attempt to make "authentic" restaurant style pizza. What I can do instead is make a tasty meal that the family enjoys, fairly quickly and cheaply. We have pizza every Saturday, so it also has to be something that we can work into our routine.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#138
post #8

Folks who know pizza: What can those us with regular ovens do? You know, the sort of oven you find in most kitchens that top out at 250C (500F)?

1. Make great dough. The ingredients are cheap, it doesn't take much manual time -- but you want to let it ferment in your refrigerator at least overnight. 2. Make your own sauce. The ingredients are cheap, and a little experimentation will get it to the taste that you want. 3. Don't overtop it. The natural tendency is to want more - more sauce, more cheese, more whatever else. Start off very simply. Scatter little b…

3. Don't overtop it. The natural tendency is to want more - more sauce, more cheese, more whatever else. Start off very simply. Scatter little bits.

I think this is important: Sauce and toppings all compete with the crust for heat.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#139

FYI for Americans: when you describe pizza as pie and non-American English speakers are listening, their inner child recoils in horror. pizza = flat thing with cheese on top, pizza base at bottom pie = closed thing with significant vertical component, pastry on top and bottom Otherwise, every flatbread or similar thing on earth is a pie. Observe: "Oh, I really dig these Indian roti -pies". "Pass me another naan -pie"…

We know what pie is. Sometimes languages use the same word for two things. You can tell from context.

We don't use pie for any of those other things you list. It's either a pie (pumpkin, apple, pecan, etc), or a pizza.

Your inner child needs to accept that some people speak different languages than you.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#140

FYI for Americans: when you describe pizza as pie and non-American English speakers are listening, their inner child recoils in horror. pizza = flat thing with cheese on top, pizza base at bottom pie = closed thing with significant vertical component, pastry on top and bottom Otherwise, every flatbread or similar thing on earth is a pie. Observe: "Oh, I really dig these Indian roti -pies". "Pass me another naan -pie"…

We know what pie is. Sometimes languages use the same word for two things. You can tell from context.

Your inner child needs to accept that some people speak different languages than you.

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