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Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

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Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, a pie must be baked, so that would eliminate omelettes, pancakes, and more from your list. Second, a pie must have a crust and a filling. That eliminates a lot of the list too. Second, a pie needn't have pastry on both top and bottom. There are numerous pies with no crust on top, such as pumpkin pie, key lime pie, banana cream pie, lemon meringue pie, chess pie, pecan pie, or chocolate icebox pie. These…

Interesting view regarding the pastry on top. Would you consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moussaka , and other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_casserole_dishes all pies then? Toasted sandwiches are baked and by your definition could still then be pie . If you would argue otherwise, where do you draw the line between baking and toasting?

While the crust doesn't have to be on both sides, there does still need to be some kind of crust. So that disqualifies lasagna and moussaka, at least in any form I've ever had them. It also probably disqualifies most if not all casseroles, since they don't have a crust, or at least I wouldn't call it that. (In my experience, many casseroles have no breading. But, in those that do, it's usually either mixed in with everything or is lightly sprinkled on top.)

I wouldn't consider a toasted sandwich to have a crust because to me a crust is more of a hard pastry layer, not a fluffy piece of bread which has been browned.

Though that is a bit of a gray area. If you were to take some fluffy white bread, get it wet, and mash it down into a layer that lines a pie pan, and then put some filling (fruit for example) in it and bake it, and if the bread all hardened together into a cohesive outer shell, then I suppose I'd call that a very unconventional pie.

Just to make everything more complicated, there are deep-dish pizzas that have a very pie-like form. There's crust on top and the bottom, and they are cooked in a pan that resembles a pie pan. For example, this: http://winespiritsbeer.blogspot.com/2013/09/beer-crust-deep-... . Compared to a flat pizza, I think those are more deserving of the word "pie" not only because there is a crust but because the ingredients are more of a filling and less of a topping.

Another question is whether a (baked) calzone or empanada is a pie. They certainly meet most of my criteria, so maybe I'd have to say they are.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#112
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

> 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space.

Does it _have_ to be a wood-burning oven though? Does only the heat matter?

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#114
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

> 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. Does it _have_ to be a wood-burning oven though? Does only the heat matter?

The article covers this. Gas and electric ovens allegedly generate/pool moisture, whereas the convection in brick ovens makes the air much more dry.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#115
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

> 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. Does it _have_ to be a wood-burning oven though? Does only the heat matter?

It doesn't have to be a WFO (wood fired oven), but you will get slightly different results depending on wood/gas/electric.

I used to have a WFO, but after I moved houses I've switched to all electric. It's different and more convenient, but I do miss my old WFO at times. Still makes great pizza though, and most folks won't be able to tell the difference.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#116
post #68

I decided about two years ago try to make a lot of pizza and see how good I could get. I live in a small apartment with a gas oven. When I started, I would make them on a regular baking pan with the oven set to 400°. They were terrible, but it was fun. At some point, my wife jammed a rectangular grilling stone (from Amazon) into our broiler. That made more of a difference than anything. If your broiler is in the main…

Our stones specifically say not to use them with the broiler. Which one do you use?

A cordite stone will work well against the broiler. But as with any stone, you're going to want to hit it up slowly to reduce breakage. I'd recommend at least 40m heat up to whatever your oven's top temp is (probably 550), then switching to broiler after that point.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#117
post #100
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

I 100% endorse these recommendations (I say this as someone who makes 3-6 pizzas a weekend, with an oven that does 900+ degrees as well). I'll also put in a little plug for my dough calculator here: http://maybepizza.com/calc/ , which is a bit more accessible on hand held devices. I like that you're keeping a historical record on your spreadsheet- that's a neat idea.

OOoooO I like your style mister!

Let people post their results, correlated with their location and time to pull humidity from the local weather and give them a place to store results and we can crowd source our way to some serious pizza! :P

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#118
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

I forgot to add, if you have the oven capable of 900 degrees, you are best to use a 00 flour, like Antimo Caputo. I mix Antimo Caputo (60%) with Giusto's Ultimate Performer (40%)

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#119
post #91

There is some good stuff in this recipe. It's a great starting point for learning. I built a wood burning pizza oven and have been doing experiments for 5+ years, and what I've discovered is only certain things make a taste-able difference. 1. Oven. 900 degrees baby. Pizza cooks fast, and tastes delicious. You can get the "leoparding" on the edges. 100% worth it if you have time and space. 2. Yeast. Get the Ischia: h…

I see a lot of recipes recommending autolyse in both bread and pizza. I'm not sure I understand what the benefit is in a recipe which is already high hydration and has a long rest. E.g. my typical sourdough recipe is something like: feed starter generously, let sit overnight. Build dough with bubbly starter, bread flour, additional water, some rye or whole wheat. Bulk ferment for most of the day, with about 4 folds i…

this is a good discussion: http://www.northwestsourdough.com/experiments-with-autolyse-...

the answer, as usual with baking, is it depends. Salt definitely changes the chemistry. Salt mostly stabilizes the gluten structure and makes it stronger, but it can also inhibit development of new gluten bonds somewhat, particularly when the flour is initially hydrating.

You need to experiment, try a 2 hour autolyze before adding salt for a 24 hour cold rise.

Re: Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe (2008)

#120
post #3

surprised to see this here, but it doesn't have style sheets, so maybe not too surprised ;) jeff varasano's website is a great resource for pizza hackers and lays a lot of myths to rest (like proofing). my own process (which I cook in a blackstone pizza oven at ~800°) has a bit more in common with tony gemignani's basic neopolitan (described in his pizza bible ), with the addition of the earlier and longer autolysing…

Awesome! I saved every one since I've never been to any... can you do the South Bay/Peninsula (anyone else too)? About the OP: I effing _love_ pizza but struggle to make it at home. The quality and quantity of knowledge in this post is fantastic!

Pizza Bocca Lupo in San Jose is good and pretty inexpensive!
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