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Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

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201–210 of 452 posts

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in your world the eventual outcome is that nearly all (commercial) content providers would be owned by ISPs. Last mile infrastructure is a natural monopoly, and unless you do something to force companies to share it, they won't. There are various ways to do this. What's your preference?

I don't think last mile is a natural monopoly anymore due to wireless options.

Wireless isn't a viable option for video streaming, downloading large files, gaming etc...

They all throttle you past 20GB or so, they aren't nearly fast enough, latency is terrible, and they suffer huge congestion problems.

But let's assume you think that wireless is currently good enough to replace cable and DSL for your needs. Switch half of the population over to wireless. I guarantee you it won't be good enough then.

Satisfaction ratings for Comcast are atrocious--if wireless was a viable option, everyone would already be using it at home.

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#203
post #37

If the internet is fundamental to free speech, maybe it's not a good idea to give it's freedom over to state control, and in particular to an agency who historically has gone beyond it's original mandate and censored content. When you hand over control to the government, don't ask yourself what it would look like if you were creating the laws, ask yourself what it'll look like when self-interested politicians create…

Your argument glosses over the difference between a last-mile private corporation controlling every byte of content and the government simply preventing the practice of route prioritization. Just because you are in favor of preventing route prioritization doesnt mean youre in favor of the bizarre absolute opposite of government "controlling content". nobody (I know of) is advocating government control of content. Tha…

You've missed the point of my argument entirely. The FCC was put into place to regulate airwaves, i.e. who can use what airwaves and for what purpose. It didn't take long for them to start regulating the content said airwaves.

My point is that I really don't care what your good intention are, or what you believe the government will limit itself to. That's all nice and sweet, and a great discussion for a 5th grade civics class, but what I'm saying is how long do you think before well intended, someone please think of the children types (or more recently those of the outrage culture spawned from university campuses), will start regulating the content? Once you give them authority to make decisions about how the internet should be regulated, they'll start getting creative. The FCC is a historical example of that, and it's the exact department your handing over the internet to.

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#206
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that change how HTTPS works?

It doesn't, but the ISP still know what pages you went to. If they want to determine your political leanings your browsing history is enough.

How would the ISP know what pages you went to over HTTPS? Only the domain name would be available, through SNI/DNS.

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#207

Net neutrality is fundamental to free speech. Without net neutrality, big companies could censor your voice and make it harder to speak up online. Net neutrality has been called the “First Amendment of the Internet.” Not just harder. Infinitely more dangerous. Probably the scariest implications for NN being gutted are those around loss of anonymity through the Internet. ISPs who are allowed to sell users' browsing hi…

"NN being gutted are those around loss of anonymity through the Internet." How is that by necessity a bad thing? People aren't anonymous in every day life and their internet anonymity is mostly an illusion anyway. Big brother can almost always find out who did what if they want to. " These "rollbacks" of regulations make it orders of magnitude easier for any entity in a corporation or organization to track down peopl…

> I don't see how removing anonymity is inherently by its very nature a bad thing. It seems likely it would be like everything else, you'd need to legislate the legality of certain things given that all activity is non-anonymous, etc.

I see a few issues with such massive violations of privacy:

1. Slippery slope: Knowledge of people's private lives is extremely valuable, and nobody with the power to collect or use it is going to relinquish it, if anything they're more likely to try to get more, until they have absolutely everything. This isn't inherently bad, as concentrated power is very easily abused. We have a wonderful case study of this with the NSA, their ever expanding powers, their willful breaking what few legal limits are imposed upon them, and their inability to prevent themselves from breaking their own policies about abusing access to their treasure trove.

2. Benevolent dictator: This privacy invasion will most certainly work it's way back to the government, which has severe implications for civil disobedience and political dissent in general. While it's all peaches when the government is "nice", you're never going to have all citizens agree with the government, and future politicians abusing previously allocated power/resources is extremely likely (not that there has ever been a government administration worthy of invading everyone's privacy to begin with).

3. Drawing a line here is not only a great place, it also lets everyone consolidate resources to fight for a known good state. There's a lot of information to be gleaned from the data, and it's unlikely that everyone can commit fully to understanding the ramifications of letting this information out, much less understand how it will be used, or how it can be used. And much like giving the legislation a pile of money with legislatively imposed spending limitations, they're going to be constantly fighting to tweak and remove those limits. And its so much harder to be constantly vigilant when there's dozens of laws governing what can or cannot be done with the data, before we even presume that we agree with those laws to begin with.

4. As noted above with the NSA, it's not possible to trust custodians of this treasure, they're only human, and they're bound to abuse their power at some point. But we don't just have to worry about people with legitimate access obtaining this data, we also have to worry about hackers grabbing it from poorly secured servers, which seems to be an inevitable computer event, even more so for such massively useful information.

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook isn't an ISP. Facebook -- though big! -- is one site on the internet and if you feel like you're not receiving news about things that are important to you there, you hop onto another site. If enough people stop using Facebook, Facebook will be compelled to make changes. Breaking net neutrality laws makes it harder for you to find alternatives. Imagine you're stuck with whatever news sources your ISP picks fo…

> Comcast -- though big! -- is one ISP on the internet and if you feel like you're not receiving news about things that are important to you there, you hop onto another ISP. If enough people stop using Comcast, Comcast will be compelled to make changes. [...] Imagine you're stuck with whatever news sources your social network picks for you. "Huffington Post, Reddit, and Twitter have decided not to pay us, so we no lo…

To put a finer point on it: Facebook isn't a common carrier, Comcast is.

I don't think Facebook yet has a monopoly on social networking. There are too many powerful competitors and "social networking" is kind of a broad term, anyway. Does LinkedIn qualify? Twitter? Reddit? Tinder? Anyway: If they do wind up with a monopoly, that's a whole other issue and has little to do with common carrier laws.

My understanding is that the FCC investigates complaints. Someone complained about Colbert. They're investigating. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't taken any actions. And the FCC does have rules which they're allowed to apply to network broadcast television because it fits into a special case. (Cable doesn't have the same sorts of restrictions.)

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#209
I'm not sure putting the internet into the same class of service as a telephone made sense for all the unintended consequences. Everyone is fine until they wind up paying $50/month for their internet and then seeing another $15 in government fees added to their bill. From a pragmatic point of view, I'm sure the government will always have the option to regulate it later on.

Re: Net neutrality is in jeopardy again

#210

Net neutrality is fundamental to free speech. Without net neutrality, big companies could censor your voice and make it harder to speak up online. Net neutrality has been called the “First Amendment of the Internet.” Not just harder. Infinitely more dangerous. Probably the scariest implications for NN being gutted are those around loss of anonymity through the Internet. ISPs who are allowed to sell users' browsing hi…

The bill he reversed was passed last year. How much selling of our browsing history happened before then? Do you have any evidence of this happening?
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