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Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

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Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#41

Post by gfodor »

mkramlich wrote: post #40

I hold that the existence of North Korea, and it's conditions, makes a mockery of the United Nations. How can the world community of nations allow a country like that to exist and treat it's people like that? Why do supposedly "good" and civilized nations allow that to continue? Yes it might require military action to end it. But perhaps it would be worth it in order to reduce the suffering of 20+ million people.

This is a highly simplistic analysis, if for no other reason that any attempt to use force to rectify the situation will result in the needless death of likely thousands of innocent South Koreans.

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#42

Post by mkramlich »

gfodor wrote: post #41
mkramlich wrote: post #40

I hold that the existence of North Korea, and it's conditions, makes a mockery of the United Nations. How can the world community of nations allow a country like that to exist and treat it's people like that? Why do supposedly "good" and civilized nations allow that to continue? Yes it might require military action to end it. But perhaps it would be worth it in order to reduce the suffering of 20+ million people.

This is a highly simplistic analysis, if for no other reason that any attempt to use force to rectify the situation will result in the needless death of likely thousands of innocent South Koreans.

... as opposed to the millions who have probably died under North Korean misrule, and the thousands or millions more who will likely also die in the future due to it?

I disagree it's a simplistic analysis, and I even disagree that a "simple" analysis is inherently bad. But I think we both agree that people dying is a bad thing.

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#43

Post by patio11 »

archgoon wrote: post #30
DeusExMachina wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being italian, I'm really curious about what you mean with "italian living standards".

In terms of GDP per capita, South Korea is closest to Italy out of any European country, which HN readers might feel more familiar with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_...

Archgoon got it in one. I have an East Asian Studies degree, but most Americans don't, so when I discuss the current or historical economies of East Asian countries I usually use a North American or European frame of reference. ("Japan in 1960 was substantially poorer than Mexico" works very effectively to get someone's attention.)

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#44

Post by patio11 »

w1ntermute wrote: post #33
patio11 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a general sense that there should be one Korea at some point or other This is a quite popular opinion to express publicly, but I think the support for it is rather shallow. When push comes to shove, unifying Korea would have immediate economic impacts to South Koreans more severe than the United States swallowing Mexico. (South Korea has 48 million people who have essentially Italian living standards. North K…

I highly doubt the border would just "go down". That would be an economic and logistical disaster for South Korea.

I agree. This gives us the prospect of a democratic nation with internal passports and a border where you'll be shot for trying to cross. I don't think that is likely, which is why I'm pessimistic about the odds of reunification.

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#46

Post by zavulon »

mkramlich wrote: post #42
gfodor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a highly simplistic analysis, if for no other reason that any attempt to use force to rectify the situation will result in the needless death of likely thousands of innocent South Koreans.

... as opposed to the millions who have probably died under North Korean misrule, and the thousands or millions more who will likely also die in the future due to it? I disagree it's a simplistic analysis, and I even disagree that a "simple" analysis is inherently bad. But I think we both agree that people dying is a bad thing.

I would agree with you... unfortunately, there's only one thing that complicates the matters: nuclear weapons. If attacked, NK would of course be overwhelmed - but not before doing some massive and catastrophic damage to their near and not so near neighbors.

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#47

Post by InclinedPlane »

rmc wrote: post #25
vinhboy wrote: post #21

Anyone know why NK keep letting these videos get made, even though it makes them look like total douche bags? Do they really believe something good would come out of it?

Allowing forgein visitors is one of their main ways of getting hard forgein currency, that they can then use for trade.

I doubt that's anywhere near as significant as the hard foreign currency they get via arms (and technology) trade (a circa $100 mil/year business at least).

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#48

Post by InclinedPlane »

zavulon wrote: post #46
mkramlich wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... as opposed to the millions who have probably died under North Korean misrule, and the thousands or millions more who will likely also die in the future due to it? I disagree it's a simplistic analysis, and I even disagree that a "simple" analysis is inherently bad. But I think we both agree that people dying is a bad thing.

I would agree with you... unfortunately, there's only one thing that complicates the matters: nuclear weapons. If attacked, NK would of course be overwhelmed - but not before doing some massive and catastrophic damage to their near and not so near neighbors.

Nuclear weapons hardly change the balance of the equation even.

So much of South Korea's population lives in the Seoul metropolitan area and within range of hardened, well-hidden North Korean artillery that it makes it a near certainty that any hot-war on the peninsula would come at the price of hundreds of thousands to millions of South Korean deaths. Add in nuclear weapons, unconventional warfare (who knows how many sleeper terrorist agents the DPRK has in the South), and conventional battlefield losses and you get a horrific butcher's bill on both sides for any likely engagement. Stacked against that the ongoing horror visited on North Korea's citizens by its own regime is not enough to warrant such sacrifices, sad as that is.

Re: Life inside the North Korean Bubble (with video)

#49

Post by eru »

Mark_Book wrote: post #36
eru wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to resort to believing--either way. Just look at some statistics. You have all the web at your disposal, I suppose.

Wikipaedia says 13.3 million crossed east to west europe between 1950 and 1990, 75% of this movement was sanctioned so that makes for 4 million irregular crossings or about 100,000 per year. Currently the US is estimated to have 11.5 million illegal immigrants with about 0.5 million entering each year

Thanks for actually doing the work I was only bitching about!
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