11M people voted for Le Pen. This number is terrifyingly high.
12M people didn't vote at all. And 4M voted for neither candidate.
French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
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Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#62Nothing juicy in the emails it seems - so what possible benefit is there for the leaker? Could it be bragging? Increasing fear of hacking? Implying that Le Pen was in cahoots with the Russians?
Clearly if it was supposed to help Le Pen it didn't work.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#63Did she set up concentration camps or plans to?
The Left – tolerant as ever when it comes to differing opinions.
What's wrong with not tolerating intolerance? Not to be confused with not tolerating not tolerating intolerance, which is a totally different thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Philosopher Karl Popper defined the paradox in 1945 in The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1.
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
He concluded that we are warranted in refusing to tolerate intolerance: "We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't agree with the downvotes you are receiving, you make some good overall points (but also some bad ones). Nothing is dead until it is entirely dead, and the EU idea still runs strong in people. Things need to change, as Brexit and the recent problems faced by the union have shown. Now it's down to the time to reform. I don't think Macron is choosing the status quo though, hes as much as a political outsider as…
What exactly "needs to change"? When I see people complain about the EU it's usually about "the EU taking their sovereignty and imposing stuff on them". So if "things are going to change" that means the EU would have to become less like the U.S. (a federal entity), and more like an aggregate of wildly different cultures and regulations (so more like the pre-EU Europe). Is that really a good thing? And do things "need…
What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed. The EU as it is right now is becoming the next Sovient Union. A undemocratic, centralised, bureaucratic superstate that strips the people from their sovereignty, independence, cultural and ethnic traditions.
Further, you seem to assume that without the EU, trade between countries would somehow radically decrease, i don't see that happening. The European Economic Area (EEA) and the Schengen treaty exist independently from the EU. Norway and Switzerland are not members of the EU, yet they trade perfectly fine with others. The EU is not necessary for free trade.
PS: Feel free to downvote, but at least make an argument.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#65As a European this comes as a huge relief, especially given the poorly-timed email leak (with Russian names in the metadata). Here's to hoping that Europe can continue working together and begin to reform itself, and not tear itself apart like some of our American 'allies' on the (alt-)right would like. Lots of challenges ahead, but we wouldn't want it to be too easy now would we?
As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…
Have you and your European friends tried actually addressing some of the racist beliefs you casually take for granted which lead you to discriminate against immigrants when it comes to integration into society? (They are always considered lesser, even after numerous generations in the country).
Source: Am Canadian who moved to Europe 2 years ago and am constantly shocked by how racists Europeans are.
I think part of the problem is that in Canada an immigrant is considered "Canadian" as soon as they get their citizenship. People are proud of their heritage, but nobody gets to claim superiority of citizenship. Whereas in Europe it seems that you are constantly defined by your ancestry, even after multiple generations.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#66I'm curious how things work? This is just a prediction? Is this an official exit poll?
Polls close at 7pm except in larger cities, but counting of votes start at this time. It's forbidden to leak the results until 8pm, at which time the sample is large enough to give a precise estimate, unlikely to move by much.
> at which time the sample is large enough to give a precise estimate, unlikely to move by much.
More importantly, at which time all booths are closed.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Switzerland they speak four different languages and that doesn't seem to be a problem.
You should try to live for a few years in different European countries like Hungary, Romania and Germany. Most importantly see how each of these people see each other and their neighbours. I bet that people in Switzerland have more in common (economically and culturally) than people from Bulgaria and France have for example.
Don't even mention the Balkans...in some countries they still angrily talk about 1054 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism and 1204 (Sack of Constantinople https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(1204))
Hopefully the new generations will care more about their iPhone 68 than ancient history.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#68As a European this comes as a huge relief, especially given the poorly-timed email leak (with Russian names in the metadata). Here's to hoping that Europe can continue working together and begin to reform itself, and not tear itself apart like some of our American 'allies' on the (alt-)right would like. Lots of challenges ahead, but we wouldn't want it to be too easy now would we?
You seem to assume that without the EU, european countries would no longer cooperate and trade with each other. I don't see that happening. The European Economic Area (EEA) and the Schengen treaty exist independently from the EU. Norway and Switzerland are not members of the EU, yet they trade perfectly fine with others.
The EU is simply not necessary for free trade; nor is free trade its main goal. The EU as it is right now is becoming the next Sovient Union. A undemocratic, centralised, bureaucratic superstate that strips the people from their sovereignty, independence, cultural and ethnic traditions. What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
A new hope would have been to start having a decline in the far-right votes.
Yeah totally. I wished for a 20%. Alas time moves quick and I couldn't act to ensure this locally. 35% is still way too high, but the worst is avoided.
The worst isn't avoided - just postponed. Le Pen's father received half the vote she did back in 2002. That means nationalist sentiment has doubled in just 15 years. If things go the way they are (which they will under Macron) we should expect a nationalist landslide in about a decade.
Re: French election: Macron defeats Le Pen
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a European I see this as a huge concern. Choosing Macron means keeping the status quo, which means continued mass immigration, continued bad economic policy, etc... in Europe. I am sure the bankers will be glad as will the European Commission and the multinationals, but the common people will become disillusioned in a few years as more and more terrorist attacks will happen into Europe and the problems with the ec…
I don't agree with the downvotes you are receiving, you make some good overall points (but also some bad ones). Nothing is dead until it is entirely dead, and the EU idea still runs strong in people. Things need to change, as Brexit and the recent problems faced by the union have shown. Now it's down to the time to reform. I don't think Macron is choosing the status quo though, hes as much as a political outsider as…
I don't think Macron is a political outsider. He is from elite schools, served as a finance minister before. What he (and powers that backed him) realized is that political landscapes are changing everywhere and there was an opportunity to run without support of traditional parties. The major political axis is now national/conservative vs global/liberal, instead of traditional economic left vs right.