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Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#131

Post by aws_ls »

cr0sh wrote: post #120
endymi0n wrote: post #18

Don't have a degree myself and about a third of the people I hire also don't have one. Why? Because I don't give anything about them. I'd say if you don't want to work for a large, respected company first , it's a waste of time. Your degree is your entry ticket to your first job, not more. Later on, you can even work at Google if you want - just make a great product and get acquihired. Three tips on what you should d…

> I'd say if you don't want to work for a large, respected company first, it's a waste of time. I wouldn't necessarily say that. I don't have a degree (well, an Associates that ain't worth much). I've been employed as a software developer for 25+ years now (since I was 18 years old). I wish I had pursued a degree, though. Back then, when it came to my education, I was pretty lazy - at least when it came to more struc…

>Last year, I started Udacity's Self-Driving Car Engineer Nanodegree

Same. I am also doing the course, just finishing term 1 (in the Feb cohort). Although I have a degree, taken around 23 years back. But I think, its the always learning attitude, thats more important.

As of now, I'm not exactly sure, as to how I can utilize the learnings in CarND nanodegree, but I'm enjoying learning about stuff, all the same. Had never coded in Python before I started taking Udacity courses, so learnt Python along the way, and that's just one of the several things.

For me, I find, I am not satisfied with knowing some things at a high level. Until I'd started taking these courses, I'd always get confused between the terms AI/ML/DL for e.g. also other buzzwords would be learnt in some vague way, and soon forgotten. Now the minimum value-add of this, is that that I can distinguish between BS/hype or not, when read articles on ML/etc. Also have advised some friends on what it can do and what it can't. That's a big achievement by itself to me. And lastly although, I am pursuing my own startup, so not actively looking for a job, but if some opportunity arises, I will seriously consider it. Because, heck, why not?

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#132

Post by natbobc »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #28
alkonaut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends on how you define "data science". I think the widely accepted definition is "Statistics, but on a Mac"

Shots fired??? I'm new to the startup community, e.g. still in school but excited about startups, is there a general aversion to Windows and why is that?

TLDR;

1. Start-ups love OSS. OSS loves NIX. 2. Mac's just work (mostly). 3. Cult of Apple.

1. OSS is generally free. Windows software, esp. on the server side, tends not to be. For a start-up it means you might need to invest some sweat but you can spend your cash elsewhere (typically on hires or feeding yourself). OS X being a NIX allows easier porting of OSS than Windows.

2. Apple tech has a reputation for "just working" and continuing to work. Windows is still perceived to need a spring cleaning to reinstall it every year or so to keep it purring. Apple being a closed ecosystem from end-to-end doesn't have to support as much random stuff as MS. It keeps the problem space narrow and presumably that results in higher reliability.

3. The cult of Apple. Apple has a brand that is perceived as creative, fun, enlightened, whatever. MS is viewed as big enterprise. , which is often the Goliath that start-ups are looking to slay.

--

Anecdotally one company I was an early "many hats" hire I standardised on Macs because it meant less effort for support and licensing was easier.

If someones Mac was acting up/it fell down the stairs we could swap the drive to another machine and not faff with driver setup. If someone left the company, we could easily transfer the licenses which isn't always as straight forward between Windows and OS X.

One drawback is that we had one developer who preferred Windows. He was probably less productive than he could've been as a result. I would generally advocate to allow developers to pick their hardware when they start and take it when they leave. Once the company was big enough for a full-time IT support staff we diversified but it's a tradeoff either way.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#133

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

natbobc wrote: post #132
SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shots fired??? I'm new to the startup community, e.g. still in school but excited about startups, is there a general aversion to Windows and why is that?

TLDR; 1. Start-ups love OSS. OSS loves NIX. 2. Mac's just work (mostly). 3. Cult of Apple. 1. OSS is generally free. Windows software, esp. on the server side, tends not to be. For a start-up it means you might need to invest some sweat but you can spend your cash elsewhere (typically on hires or feeding yourself). OS X being a NIX allows easier porting of OSS than Windows. 2. Apple tech has a reputation for "just wo…

Thank's for the reply, how does this apply if you're developing software that more than likely is going to run in a windows environment, i.e. Hololens, or on a gaming rig? I would imagine developing for that environment would necessitate access to that environment fairly regularly.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#134

Post by bbcbasic »

DoubleCribble wrote: post #110
afarrell wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that, do you mean <=5 of them, or given that your hand has 5 bits, <32 of them?

Given the rotating power of your average radius and ulna, isn't it possible to go all the way to <64 on single hand binary? (whole hand binary)

65 if you include sticking up the middle finger.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#135

Post by bbcbasic »

iamacynic wrote: post #35

i fell into an ML consulting gig that was very lucrative once. something to ponder: you just have to know enough to actually deliver on something management wants, and know more about it than everyone else at the company.

True. I'm an AV security expert at my mother in law's house.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#136

Post by tutufan »

nl wrote: post #129
samuraixp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome, so what qualifications do your Data Science team members have and would you hire someone without a degree? Or what if they had a data science / ML / AI MOOC like Udacity or Coursera? And do you have any advice for OP or others who don't have degrees?

We've interviewed people without degrees for SWE positions. I don't think we've hired any. I wouldn't rule it out, but it would be useful to have accomplishments to point to, or a personal recommendation. We have a stack of maybe 25 well qualified PhD data scientists waiting for interviews. It takes a lot to get to the head of that line.

Interesting. So perhaps tales of shortages are bullshit?

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#137

Post by natbobc »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #133
natbobc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR; 1. Start-ups love OSS. OSS loves NIX. 2. Mac's just work (mostly). 3. Cult of Apple. 1. OSS is generally free. Windows software, esp. on the server side, tends not to be. For a start-up it means you might need to invest some sweat but you can spend your cash elsewhere (typically on hires or feeding yourself). OS X being a NIX allows easier porting of OSS than Windows. 2. Apple tech has a reputation for "just wo…

Thank's for the reply, how does this apply if you're developing software that more than likely is going to run in a windows environment, i.e. Hololens, or on a gaming rig? I would imagine developing for that environment would necessitate access to that environment fairly regularly.

It doesn't if you're in the AR/VR or Video game space. It'll tend to be Windows centric. Server side stuff might be Linux but as you've alluded the client development will target Windows (e.g. HoloLens SDK requires Windows/MS Studio).

Only suggestion I'd make is learn to use the Command-Line with your tools (where possible) and practise writing scripts to optimise your workflow. If you do that it'll make the transition to a NIX a little less foreign.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#138

Post by nl »

tutufan wrote: post #136
nl wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've interviewed people without degrees for SWE positions. I don't think we've hired any. I wouldn't rule it out, but it would be useful to have accomplishments to point to, or a personal recommendation. We have a stack of maybe 25 well qualified PhD data scientists waiting for interviews. It takes a lot to get to the head of that line.

Interesting. So perhaps tales of shortages are bullshit?

It's pretty hard to find people who know how to apply the tools that they have to new problems.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#139

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

natbobc wrote: post #137
SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank's for the reply, how does this apply if you're developing software that more than likely is going to run in a windows environment, i.e. Hololens, or on a gaming rig? I would imagine developing for that environment would necessitate access to that environment fairly regularly.

It doesn't if you're in the AR/VR or Video game space. It'll tend to be Windows centric. Server side stuff might be Linux but as you've alluded the client development will target Windows (e.g. HoloLens SDK requires Windows/MS Studio). Only suggestion I'd make is learn to use the Command-Line with your tools (where possible) and practise writing scripts to optimise your workflow. If you do that it'll make the transiti…

I have a class next semester specifically on command line and NIX that I'm pretty excited about. When you say scripts do you specifically mean bash scripts or more generally like Python scripts ect.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#140

Post by rdudek »

GoodbyeEarl wrote: post #70
rdudek wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great, however, the biggest roadblock might be the automated HR application scanning. As a victim of this, I'm back in school to finish my degree that I started 17 years ago.

May I ask which degree was that?

I'm working on B.S. in Computer Science
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