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On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

nytimes.com

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Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#141

Post by yongjik »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #129

I'm going to take the contrarian position, just so people understand why this is so. For the uninitiated, read up the history of Tibet. They haven't always been peaceful monks. Most notably, the Tibetans sacked the capital of the Tang dynasty — one of China's most brilliant in terms of cultural accomplishments — in that dynasty's twilight years. For the Chinese, unity is a matter of culture and national security. Sur…

> Most notably, the Tibetans sacked the capital of the Tang dynasty — one of China's most brilliant in terms of cultural accomplishments — in that dynasty's twilight years.

So you're saying Tibetans were a proud, independent people whose strength once even matched that of the famous Tang Empire?

I don't think your argument is helping your position...

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#142

Post by dmoy »

voodooranger wrote: post #71
Cyph0n wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a very interesting investigative documentary by Al Jazeera that shows how Israel funds and manages the Israeli lobby in the UK. I'll look for the link and edit this comment. Edit : Here is a link to part 1 of the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc . You can follow the "Up next" link to watch the other parts; there are 4 parts in total.

Not sure that the mouthpiece of the ruling family of Qatar is a reputable source for anything, much less any topic involving Israel.

If you don't want AJ's take on it, read it from haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.763768

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.765533

Even if you read both sides, it's hard to tell whether or not it's a loud mouthed idiot who thinks he's hot shit, or something more insidious like AJ and some Brits are insinuating.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#143

Post by yumraj »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #129

I'm going to take the contrarian position, just so people understand why this is so. For the uninitiated, read up the history of Tibet. They haven't always been peaceful monks. Most notably, the Tibetans sacked the capital of the Tang dynasty — one of China's most brilliant in terms of cultural accomplishments — in that dynasty's twilight years. For the Chinese, unity is a matter of culture and national security. Sur…

What "unity"? Tibet was never a part of China. It's like US were to invade and occupy Canada and Mexico and then justify its actions in the name of North American unity..

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#144

Post by saboot »

mistermann wrote: post #130
Harimwakairi wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally speaking, only left leaning speakers are allowed on campuses. No. Just no. While American college campuses tend to skew left, they are not fortresses of liberalism where everyone duckspeaks about Bernie Sanders. They all have conservative professors, Young Republicans clubs, and so on. Hell, part of my large, public university tuition money went to pay a 50k speaking fee to Alberto Gonzales, ffs.

When the riots and shouting over top of conservative speakers so they can't be heard stops, then I will concede that I was wrong, until then, I consider you wrong. Freedom of speech used to be inalienable as a matter of principle, now the majority of college students vehemently oppose it. That is a fact.

If it's a fact why not cite something then? Nothing indicates a majority of students oppose free speech.

I think many speakers are dumb, so I don't attend them.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#145

Post by int_19h »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #129

I'm going to take the contrarian position, just so people understand why this is so. For the uninitiated, read up the history of Tibet. They haven't always been peaceful monks. Most notably, the Tibetans sacked the capital of the Tang dynasty — one of China's most brilliant in terms of cultural accomplishments — in that dynasty's twilight years. For the Chinese, unity is a matter of culture and national security. Sur…

That right there - where you call the homeland of a nation a "buffer region" - is the problem. China has the right to take care of its national security, sure. But not at the expense of the right to self-determination of other nations.

Regardless of all that, though, Dalai Lama coming to speak is not an "attack" on Chinese students.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#146

Post by WillPostForFood »

paulmd wrote: post #10

Israel's been doing this for a long time. Try inviting pro-Palestinian activists to campus and see what happens. At the end of the day, everyone has the right to protest, whether that's Black Lives Matter or the Westboro Baptist Church or any other group. Always distressing to see it used to further what I see as oppression but there's not really a whole lot to be done about it. You get your opinions and I get mine.…

inviting pro-Palestinian activists to campus

Why invite pro-Palestinian activists to campus when you can just walk to the faculty lounge?

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#147

Post by mistermann »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #5

And China's government have also bought nearly all Chinese language press in Australia: http://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-language-newspapers-i... And actively entering into mainstream media: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-03/birtles-australian-med...

Good idea for a startup if it's a near guaranteed buyout.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#148

Post by WillPostForFood »

mintplant wrote: post #102
maverick_iceman wrote: post #50

I see this as an outgrowth of left-liberal student bodies clamping down on conservative speech on college campuses. If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Every speech is guaranteed to offend someone and that's verboten in today's campuses. As a libertarian, I was always worried about this and it was a main reason why I opposed social justice warr…

First off, who would you include in "left-liberal", "leftist", and "social justice warriors"? These terms all mean different things to different people. "Liberal" in the American sense or the traditional sense? Do you group anarchists, communists, and sociaists into "left-liberal"? Do you consider Democrats to be "leftists"? I won't bother addressing the amorphous idea of a "social justice warrior". Your interchangea…

Except the D&D crisis was fake, and Charles Murray really was assaulted, and his escort battered, and Anne Coulter wasn't really able to speak at to speak at Berkeley because of the threat of violence. While these anecdotes don't define the scope of the problem, they prove it exists.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#149

Post by natch »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #50

I see this as an outgrowth of left-liberal student bodies clamping down on conservative speech on college campuses. If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Every speech is guaranteed to offend someone and that's verboten in today's campuses. As a libertarian, I was always worried about this and it was a main reason why I opposed social justice warr…

Pretty sure it was the university administration, not the student body, that said the Ann Coulter event wouldn't happen.

And I believe this happened because at previous events clashes between protestors on both sides, right and left (or all sides if you prefer) had turned violent. And since then the university has changed its decision.

Also I don't think we know that the protestors were students. Although it's reasonable to think that at least some of them might have been.

To me it's far more interesting to look at the Chinese students associations as a phenomenon with a longer history, predating the recent free speech brouhahas. The groups have been around since at least the early 1980s and are staffed by brainwashed zealots who were raised in a country where the official school curriculum teaches them things that are simply false (edit: as does ours too (US) but in China it is at an entirely different level), and media is tightly controlled to the point that journalists sometimes just disappear.

The liberals in the US are more in line with the thinking: "tolerate everything but intolerance," so you see them react strongly when intolerant people try to spread intolerance. It's hard for some people to wrap their head around the seemingly contradictory idea of not tolerating intolerance... you may be one of those people. But the Chinese folks are an entirely different thing, imho. They are complicated (due to national pride coupled with a huge chip on the shoulder from their history of getting surpassed in the last century) but suffice it to say they have a very rigid line of thinking about things they were force fed from an early age, and this goes way back.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#150

Post by CriticalSection »

int_19h wrote: post #145
lambdasquirrel wrote: post #129

I'm going to take the contrarian position, just so people understand why this is so. For the uninitiated, read up the history of Tibet. They haven't always been peaceful monks. Most notably, the Tibetans sacked the capital of the Tang dynasty — one of China's most brilliant in terms of cultural accomplishments — in that dynasty's twilight years. For the Chinese, unity is a matter of culture and national security. Sur…

That right there - where you call the homeland of a nation a "buffer region" - is the problem. China has the right to take care of its national security, sure. But not at the expense of the right to self-determination of other nations. Regardless of all that, though, Dalai Lama coming to speak is not an "attack" on Chinese students.

> China has the right to take care of its national security, sure. But not at the expense of the right to self-determination of other nations.

How about the self-determination of the Meskwaki and Sioux nations? Do they have a say whether an oil pipeline gets run through their nations? The Meskwaki and Sioux are getting water cannons, pepper spray, dogs sicced on them. Americans talking about the "right to self-determination of other nations" is a farce.

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