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More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

arstechnica.com

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Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#31

Post by overcyn »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #8
bryanatwood wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there should be an icon when your mic is active. I tried to build a service in Android to do this but there's no API to get whether the mic is in use or not AFAIK. I ended up disabling mic access for almost all apps, but the Google App and Google Play Services complain when you do this.

I'd go even further and light the notification LED the entire time something is reading the camera/mic from the firmware (such that applications can't disable it via software). The indicator works well for the webcams on most laptops.

So it would always be on if you use OK Google?

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#32

Post by cwyers »

izacus wrote: post #19

ArsTechnica unfortunately again misleads people due to limited expertise. On modern Androids (6.0+) accessing the microphone requires an explicit permission granted by user (just like on iOS). Furthermore, due to Doze mode implemented in 6.0 and expanded in 7.0 running these kind of services without notifying the user cleary (with permanent notification) has become pretty much impossible and unreliable. To run in bac…

Nearly 2/3rds of Android phones that have accessed the Google Play store in the week leading up to May 2nd are not on Android 6 or later:

https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#33

Post by jameslk »

There's an app called D-Vasive (no affiliation) that alerts of mic and camera usage on your phone. I've been using it for years, but it's only alerted me in predictable situations so far. I don't download a whole lot of apps however. It’s nice to have as a bit of peace of mind.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#34

Post by izacus »

cwyers wrote: post #32
izacus wrote: post #19

ArsTechnica unfortunately again misleads people due to limited expertise. On modern Androids (6.0+) accessing the microphone requires an explicit permission granted by user (just like on iOS). Furthermore, due to Doze mode implemented in 6.0 and expanded in 7.0 running these kind of services without notifying the user cleary (with permanent notification) has become pretty much impossible and unreliable. To run in bac…

Nearly 2/3rds of Android phones that have accessed the Google Play store in the week leading up to May 2nd are not on Android 6 or later: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1.

Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devices that are running Android 4.x and more than 40% devices running on Android 6.0 with additional 15% on 7.x - meaning more than half of active western users are running decently modern Android.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#35

Post by kwhitefoot »

rubatuga wrote: post #11

Why does android trust developers so much? Just lock down the apps already, and make microphone usage obvious.

The real question is why does Android along with most other operating systems distrust the user so much.

If the user were regarded as important facilities would be provided to enable the user to control the applications.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#36

Post by cwyers »

izacus wrote: post #34
cwyers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly 2/3rds of Android phones that have accessed the Google Play store in the week leading up to May 2nd are not on Android 6 or later: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1. Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devic…

What it's trying to say is that this can be a big problem even if it doesn't affect Android 6 and up. Your own statistics say it can affect up to 45% of Android users.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#37

Post by anon1385 »

izacus wrote: post #34
cwyers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly 2/3rds of Android phones that have accessed the Google Play store in the week leading up to May 2nd are not on Android 6 or later: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1. Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devic…

Are you suggesting it's ok for non-western users to be tracked this way? Why would we ignore most of the world when discussing an issue like this?

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#38

Post by izacus »

anon1385 wrote: post #37
izacus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1. Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devic…

Are you suggesting it's ok for non-western users to be tracked this way? Why would we ignore most of the world when discussing an issue like this?

I never said or claimed anything like that. Where did you get that idea?

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#39

Post by izacus »

cwyers wrote: post #36
izacus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1. Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devic…

What it's trying to say is that this can be a big problem even if it doesn't affect Android 6 and up. Your own statistics say it can affect up to 45% of Android users.

I completely agree. The Android upgrade situation is a huge and rather well known issue.

Re: More Android phones than ever are covertly listening for inaudible sounds in ads

#40

Post by djrogers »

izacus wrote: post #27
rubatuga wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I do use, if you mean iOS. I'm advocating for further development of android, which hopefully stimulates some more competition. Or maybe it's a good thing that Android is so broken in a privacy sense. It allows government + malicious entities to target it much easier instead of iOS devices, leaving me safer. /s

You're missing the fact that we're using Android because it's NOT locked down and just like malicious apps can use hardware in background... that actually lets useful apps use hardware in background as well. Free market at its best - if you want a corporation to babysit you, you have a platform. If you don't (and want to accept consequences) you can use another one. Great for all of us.

Nothing in iOS prevents an app from using the microphone in the background - I use apps that do it all the time. When I do however, there is a big, obvious, red bar at the top of my screen to remind me/let me know that it's happening.

Why dont the android designers want to do something like that?

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