Milpitas BART Station to Open in December, VTA Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Milpitas BART Station to Open in December, VTA Says

#41

Post by wahern » Sat, May 06, 2017, 5:50 AM UTC

Sanddancer wrote: post #25

ricw wrote: post #20

Can someone explain why 162 employees are needed to drive a single station?! This sounds extremely inefficient to me, particularly as it closes as night too. I'm generally curious what the break down would be.

It's open 20 hours a day, so you're going to need at least 3 shifts. It's open 7 days a week, so you're going to need at least two sets of employees per shift, and there are two stations for the extension. When you start considering ticket agents, janitorial staff, security, etc, having 13-14 people on site per shift seems pretty reasonable.

The Washington Metro keeps a single attendant at each station, so maybe 3 attendants per day. And employed what seemed like less than 1 janitorial person per station, given that you only saw one person cleaning at any one time, and that was only for an hour or two each day. You don't need double those numbers for a 7 day week because employees are a system-wide resource.

I understand you're going to need more maintenance personnel, etc, but 162 additional staff for two stations sounds like a concession to the unions. Which in the grand scheme of the whole system might be defensible--more employees as a compromise for capping wage growth. But let's call a spade a spade.

Re: Milpitas BART Station to Open in December, VTA Says

#42

Post by Sanddancer » Sat, May 06, 2017, 6:04 AM UTC

wahern wrote: post #41

Sanddancer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's open 20 hours a day, so you're going to need at least 3 shifts. It's open 7 days a week, so you're going to need at least two sets of employees per shift, and there are two stations for the extension. When you start considering ticket agents, janitorial staff, security, etc, having 13-14 people on site per shift seems pretty reasonable.

The Washington Metro keeps a single attendant at each station, so maybe 3 attendants per day. And employed what seemed like less than 1 janitorial person per station, given that you only saw one person cleaning at any one time, and that was only for an hour or two each day. You don't need double those numbers for a 7 day week because employees are a system-wide resource. I understand you're going to need more mainten…

These are completely separate hires from the rest of the BART system. Because Santa Clara County didn't buy into the system in the 60s, choosing to build a network of expressways instead, VTA is operating these stations completely separate of the rest of the BART network. So that means you're going to need redundancies that you wouldn't need if you had a bigger station and employee pool.

Re: Milpitas BART Station to Open in December, VTA Says

#43

Post by Sanddancer » Sat, May 06, 2017, 10:04 PM UTC

ende wrote: post #27

niftich wrote: post #15

Funny that BART got to SJ via the East Bay first, but I hope they make the most of it. This does complete a missing (edit: rail ) link around the Bay -- though sadly across three different transit systems. Some time ago I wrote that the geography of the Bay is unfortunate for transit in many ways [1] but notably because there's no express way to get from one side to the other; instead you have to travel along the Rin…

When a large body of water is the primary geographical obstacle, investing in boats seems the logical choice.

There's already a ferry system in the bay to points where it's feasible to to put docks. However, much of the bay is less than ten feet deep, with gentle slopes, which make ferries to other points, especially in the south bay, difficult.

Re: Milpitas BART Station to Open in December, VTA Says

#44

Post by Sanddancer » Sat, May 06, 2017, 10:15 PM UTC

bbrian wrote: post #26

tarbism wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a 50 mile ride to work in Sunnyvale? Get real. I bike everywhere but I also put my bike on a train when that is possible and faster than just riding the bike.

I don't know where your "50 mile ride" comes from when we're talking about a ten mile extension. I put my bike on Bart all the time. Given ~95% of households in the locality own cars, I assume this extension is addressing congestion or pollution; it's hardly a $2.3 billion investment so 77k people don't have to drive as far to the next Bart stop. I wasn't suggesting taking cars away from people, I was trying to make…

It's "only" ten miles, but it connects BART with VTA's light rail system, which means that the 8 miles to Sunnyvale from Great Mall. Given that part of the schedule changes planned for once BART starts is a Mountain View - Alum Rock line, Sunnyvale is a single transfer away. One of the things BART will do is create proper transit hubs in east San Jose, so that a lot more trips have decent transfers and connections.

Re: Milpitas BART Station to Open in December, VTA Says

#45

Post by wahern » Mon, May 08, 2017, 11:18 PM UTC

Sanddancer wrote: post #42

wahern wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Washington Metro keeps a single attendant at each station, so maybe 3 attendants per day. And employed what seemed like less than 1 janitorial person per station, given that you only saw one person cleaning at any one time, and that was only for an hour or two each day. You don't need double those numbers for a 7 day week because employees are a system-wide resource. I understand you're going to need more mainten…

These are completely separate hires from the rest of the BART system. Because Santa Clara County didn't buy into the system in the 60s, choosing to build a network of expressways instead, VTA is operating these stations completely separate of the rest of the BART network. So that means you're going to need redundancies that you wouldn't need if you had a bigger station and employee pool.

How are they separate? The article says,

  [the VTA] is building the new station and handing off its
  operation to BART once complete

Then later on

  Alicia Trost, a BART spokeswoman, said her transit agency
  will ramp up to hire 162 positions, funded by and dedicated
  for the Berryessa extension. She added BART is estimating it
  will cost $27.5 million to provide service at the new
  stations.

Finally,

  VTA will reimburse BART for the cost for staffing the two
  new stations.

I missed the last part the first time through. If VTA agreed to reimburse BART for operating costs, then as a union negotiator it would seem an easy sell for BART to hire an excessive number of employees given that they wouldn't be footing the bill. And in any event, it would be in BART's best interest to inflate its operating cost estimates for the two stations to minimize its risk going forward. Inflating the number of positions needed is one way to do that.