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Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#121

Post by FanaHOVA »

cr0sh wrote: post #120
endymi0n wrote: post #18

Don't have a degree myself and about a third of the people I hire also don't have one. Why? Because I don't give anything about them. I'd say if you don't want to work for a large, respected company first , it's a waste of time. Your degree is your entry ticket to your first job, not more. Later on, you can even work at Google if you want - just make a great product and get acquihired. Three tips on what you should d…

> I'd say if you don't want to work for a large, respected company first, it's a waste of time. I wouldn't necessarily say that. I don't have a degree (well, an Associates that ain't worth much). I've been employed as a software developer for 25+ years now (since I was 18 years old). I wish I had pursued a degree, though. Back then, when it came to my education, I was pretty lazy - at least when it came to more struc…

> I wish I had pursued a degree, though.

Why? I'm in a similar boat, but don't really regret it or wish I had done things differently.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#123

Post by theonemind »

Well, imagine yourself on the interviewer side of the table. If you have a candidate who genuinely knows more than you, will you honestly turn them away for lack of a degree?

Obviously, you'll have problems getting past HR/filtering processes, and knowing more than whoever interviews you is a high bar.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#124

Post by toexitthedonut »

rdudek wrote: post #51
itamarst wrote: post #21

(copied from answer to another similar question.) Companies are looking for what you as a candidate can do for them. Self-study or taking a class signals some level of "I tried to learn this thing." So that's a start. Even better is "I built X", where X is obviously based on skill you learned. In which case you can omit the class because you have proof of learning, not just trying to learn. Even better is "I provided…

This is great, however, the biggest roadblock might be the automated HR application scanning. As a victim of this, I'm back in school to finish my degree that I started 17 years ago.

Precisely. When giving career advice, remember to put your HR hat on. Most of the front lines receiving your resume don't think very much like an engineer. That's why names of languages make for such popular keywords.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#125

Post by jtcond13 »

Writing a full reply since I don't agree with much of the advice given.

I've worked around/in data science teams at a large BigCo and I think that you're far overestimating the bar here. There aren't enough people to who can write data pipeline code (SQL/Shell/etc.), much less implement and intelligently explain statistical/ML models. Also, the average decision maker here does not understand the difference between 'created model in Pandas' and 'created model with Amazon's ML API'.

The modal background of data scientists in industry is closer to 'Econ BA + knows Python' than 'Artificial Intelligence PhD'. Moreover, the former will still enjoy a remunerative career if (s)he's sufficiently savvy about identifying problems and showing off how they can be solved with technology.

There may be a point in time when companies can't get a return by throwing math-savvy programmers at a problem, but that will be long after you and I have passed from the scene.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#126

Post by venture_lol »

With data science, do you mean data science as in learning the tools, the software behind data science? That's like learning any technologies or tools.

Along this line, you would just be a "tech", not a "scientist" That's not to say you won't be real well compensated.

Data Science as in you are someone able to make sense of the myriads of conflicting data, derive pattern, synthesize bits and bytes into action plans, there is no degree in that :)

As an example on this line of thought, people may win the Nobel prize in Economics even though they may have no idea on how to use Excel :)

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#127

Post by jtcond13 »

cr0sh wrote: post #120
endymi0n wrote: post #18

Don't have a degree myself and about a third of the people I hire also don't have one. Why? Because I don't give anything about them. I'd say if you don't want to work for a large, respected company first , it's a waste of time. Your degree is your entry ticket to your first job, not more. Later on, you can even work at Google if you want - just make a great product and get acquihired. Three tips on what you should d…

> I'd say if you don't want to work for a large, respected company first, it's a waste of time. I wouldn't necessarily say that. I don't have a degree (well, an Associates that ain't worth much). I've been employed as a software developer for 25+ years now (since I was 18 years old). I wish I had pursued a degree, though. Back then, when it came to my education, I was pretty lazy - at least when it came to more struc…

Good for you! Your attitude is inspiring.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#129

Post by nl »

samuraixp wrote: post #40
nl wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a data science team. We have statisticians (yes, plural) on my team who have published in Nature, and plenty with other backgrounds. Even ignoring the data engineering side, there is plenty that statisticians don't do or know which is useful data science. Take the two attitudes to p-tests, or what a "reasonable number of features" means. You drop the Jeff Dean "consider training models with billions of features…

Awesome, so what qualifications do your Data Science team members have and would you hire someone without a degree? Or what if they had a data science / ML / AI MOOC like Udacity or Coursera? And do you have any advice for OP or others who don't have degrees?

We've interviewed people without degrees for SWE positions. I don't think we've hired any.

I wouldn't rule it out, but it would be useful to have accomplishments to point to, or a personal recommendation.

We have a stack of maybe 25 well qualified PhD data scientists waiting for interviews. It takes a lot to get to the head of that line.

Re: Ask HN: Is it a waste of time to teach yourself data science without a degree?

#130

Post by reachtarunhere »

jey wrote: post #75
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For data science specifically? Remember, this question isn't about general CS.

I'm a data scientist at a research institution and I have no college degree. I'm self-taught and was originally hired as a software engineer on the basis of my projects and work experience. > Remember, this question isn't about general CS. What's your perception of data science vs CS, especially with respect to hiring?

Can you please elaborate more on the kind of work you do?
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