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Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

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Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#81

Post by killjoywashere »

aaronchall wrote: post #27
killjoywashere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was general medical officer in the Navy, among other clinic duties, I did exit physicals for sailors, sometimes 20 a week. I would always try to talk to them about their plans for the future. Some seemed to be squared away. But I can't tell you how many times someone told me their plan was to take online classes from some sketchy school I'd never heard of. I'd google it with them, it would be some online unive…

I agree on the brick-and-mortar schools suggestion. I wrote this in favor of them: https://academia.stackexchange.com/q/14833/9518 > Students overwhelmingly report retaining and applying less from online courses versus face-to-face courses. > However, this may be due to a difference in factors other than distance learning. However, I find your insult to Trump voters gratuitous and unnecessary.

My apologies, I would like to adopt dpwm's restatement:

> They are like [the] Trump voters willing to throw their lot in with whomever tells them "it will be okay", regardless of how unscrupulous and incompetent those promise-makers are.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#82

Post by killjoywashere »

orik wrote: post #47
CamperBob2 wrote: post #42

However, I find your insult to Trump voters gratuitous and unnecessary. Sorry, I disagree. It's time to start calling out these people and holding them responsible for their actions, which affect us all. Voting for a demagogue needs to carry a heavy social cost, or nothing will change.

How dare half the nation have a different political opinion than I! It's time we put their feet to the fire! /s HN is a great place to talk tech, startups and entrepreneurship. However I'm not really interested in HN's thoughts on policy, policy making, or governance. I'd rather discuss these things who study them, are in those fields, on a forum expressly for that purpose.

If you aren't prepared to talk policy or policy making, or governance, you are not prepared to lead any group of people, let alone a start-up, where there are no landmarks, so initial trajectory errors in policy are all the more difficult to detect and correct.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#83

Post by dang »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #42

However, I find your insult to Trump voters gratuitous and unnecessary. Sorry, I disagree. It's time to start calling out these people and holding them responsible for their actions, which affect us all. Voting for a demagogue needs to carry a heavy social cost, or nothing will change.

HN is not the place for this, so please don't do it here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14277304 and marked it off-topic.

We've left the original comment that took a partisan swerve intact because it was substantive otherwise (plus the author acknowledged the error).

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#84

Post by dang »

killjoywashere wrote: post #81
aaronchall wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on the brick-and-mortar schools suggestion. I wrote this in favor of them: https://academia.stackexchange.com/q/14833/9518 > Students overwhelmingly report retaining and applying less from online courses versus face-to-face courses. > However, this may be due to a difference in factors other than distance learning. However, I find your insult to Trump voters gratuitous and unnecessary.

My apologies, I would like to adopt dpwm's restatement: > They are like [the] Trump voters willing to throw their lot in with whomever tells them "it will be okay", regardless of how unscrupulous and incompetent those promise-makers are.

Ok, we've put that edit in. But please don't drop partisan tangents into HN comments. It's basically trolling, as you can see by the destructive effects on this thread (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14277404) and, even with the edit, mars your otherwise fine comment.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#85

Post by mawburn »

As a veteran and a developer, I think this is a good thing. This title is just clickbait nonsense.

The amount of "schools" preying on young veterans for their juicy GI Bills and student loans was sickening. It was basically theft and left a lot of veterans in debt.

I saw many soldiers coerced into starting courses just before being deployed. It must have been nice for those schools to have a lot of enrolled students paying absorbent amounts of money who were not even capable of participating in the course.

Most coding bootcamps are already predators, keep them the hell away from the GI Bill.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#87

Post by blhack »

40acres wrote: post #21

I don't see the need for Code Schools. Folks can learn almost anything using the resources of the internet. Provide the vets with books on coding for a specialized curriculum for fee and give them some specialized job prep. Many places would love to hire Vets.

>Folks can learn almost anything using the resources of the internet.

This is correct, but it isn't true. I can't tell you how many people I know stuck in the tarpit of "learning to code via the internet", who are being bombarded with flash-in-the-pan.js tutorials and coding tutor websites that don't really lead anywhere.

I think we as software developers look back on learning to code, and only remember the epiphanies, forgetting how infrequent those epiphanies actually were, and what a different climate things were even 10 years ago.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#88

Post by dmix »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #77
dmix wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shoehorn your politics into conversations all you like. That's why we have downvote buttons on HN.

So, it's OK for the Trump crowd to "shoehorn" their politics into every inappropriate venue they can find -- for example: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/at-fda-tvs-now-turned-to-fox-new... -- but the remaining 74% of us are expected to remain on topic at all costs. Do I basically have your position correct here?

> Do I basically have your position correct here?

No, obviously not, how would the exact same thing but of a different US political position make it okay? Did you not see my above comment?

I admit I may be expecting too much from expecting basic comprehension from the type of audience who likes to engage in this 24hr news network partisan stuff... all I'm trying to get across to you guys is that this isn't the place for it. You may find /r/politics and /r/worldnews much more welcoming, or the comment sections on the websites of major US news networks (CNN, Fox news, MSNBC, etc).

But as I said I will continue to downvote/flag it here.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#89

Post by drawnwren »

jlarocco wrote: post #57
RandomOpinion wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing stopping these veterans from going to a regular university, college, or community college and getting a real degree in computer science, software engineering, or a related field. Nothing? Have a little empathy, buddy. While I have some sympathy for your opinion of coding bootcamps, just bear in mind that it's not easy giving up something you've been doing for a couple of decades and going back to co…

Okay, I phrased it too strongly, but that doesn't change my point. They'd have exactly the same problem with any other profession that requires a degree, and lowering standards isn't the answer.

Hey, I'm a vet who went back first to a coding bootcamp and then to a CC before 'real' university. The hardest part for me (especially because I feel like I'm a pretty ok programmer) was being willing to do the very basic Freshman/Sophomore material. Also, humanities. I really wish there was an option to just take Math and CS. I imagine this is what was originally imagined with Associates degrees.

I was extremely lucky because I already enjoyed math and coding on my own. How much Trig do you remember? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but for a vet who has a lot of real world experience - going back to high school math can be a real challenge in unexpected ways.

Re: Thousands of Veterans Want to Learn to Code But Can’t

#90

Post by notatoad »

elihu wrote: post #37
rkho wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would contend that books don't give you the opportunity of practicing the intricacies of interacting with your peers.

Books also don't provide credentials. Having knowledge about a topic isn't usually sufficient to get to the interview stage.

"code schools" don't provide credentials either. This isn't talking about providing college education to veterans, that is already covered by the GI bill. This is about "coding bootcamp" and "make an iPhone app in two weeks" sort of school. And that doesn't play any better in an interview than self-learning.
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