Live data from Hacker News

Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

schneier.com

91–100 of 130 posts

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#91
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to like dense things to be in their own bin. Books are pretty dense.

I always presumed that they wanted the laptops in a separate bin because they were comparing them to a set of known images (of commercially sold laptops), but perhaps I'm giving them too much credit.

lol, no.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#92

If the TSA was shutdown entirely leading to terrorists blew up 10 planes a year in the US, flying would still be as safe as it was in the 1960s. http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/U-S-commercial-airlines...

With their current track record of 0 terrorists caught since 9/11, I think it would be much safer than the 1960s.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#93
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not putting them through a different detector, though. They take out the books and all papers the passenger has, put them in one of the normal trays, and run the trays through the xray. My wife traveled out of Kansas City last weekend and was subject to this. She's a teacher, and traveled with grading, so they took out tests, her books, everything that was paper. The line agent said they were worried about pa…

Trying to de-clutter the images by separating paper would fit the observed procedure too. It seems a little odd that it would start only now. Maybe screener testing recently showed better performance when paper is separated out.

It may have involved some original research on the spectral properties of the material their looking for; in relation to the radiant energy they have available; and the spectral sensitivities of the sensors (radiant energy source spectra, object spectra, sensor spectra = information to derive a reflectance/absorption spectra for the object and match it with whatever you're looking for). But this research also requires any software changes and testing, and possibly changes to the light source (to change the wavelength(s) available), changes to filters on the light source or the sensor or both.

I think the limiting factor is the spectral response of this specific material, given a limited radiant energy source.

Another way to do this, would be via resolution. Maybe they aren't doing spectra matching, they might be able to differentiate the physical pattern of the material, sorta like a scanning microphotograph.

EDIT: One of the comments says, "They went through the Xray machine in a separate bin, much like your laptop does."

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#94

There seem to be a lot of people theorizing that it could be something about the paper itself that they're looking for, i.e. flash paper, paper circuits or physical one-time encryption pads, but what if it's not about the paper at all? Maybe, the TSA is simply trying to discourage passengers from traveling with or using paper, thereby encouraging people to store their information digitally on phones and laptops where…

Or it's simpler than that: security theatre. We're adding a new level of annoyance so people have this false impression their jobs aren't totally beyond worthless. Fuck the TSA and the airlines. These days I'll pay more to take am AmTrak or just drive. Next time I fly, it will be after taking a train to Canada first. If I have to fly internationally, I'd rather not fly out of a US airport. I've flown through over a d…

> These days I'll pay more to take am AmTrak or just drive.

I take it you've never been searched by Amtrak police. Once on a cross-country trip all my belongings were searched twice - in Chicago where I departed, and again mid-trip.

It's not a great time.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#96
post #60

Maybe some intelligence that people are inserting sheets of metal foil into stacks of paper to attenuate the x-rays and hide something underneath? Assuming the airport X-ray machines aren't that powerful, I would guess that 15+ sheets of foil inserted into a book or similar might mask something underneath it fairly well?

but it would show up as masked or dark or low energy, then they can mark as "needs manual search". That does not require forcing "all" papers out of all bags.

I was assuming many thin sheets of foil, each separated by several pieces of paper might be more subtle, than say a slab of lead. Subtle masking vs completely hiding something else under it.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#97
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always presumed that they wanted the laptops in a separate bin because they were comparing them to a set of known images (of commercially sold laptops), but perhaps I'm giving them too much credit.

I doubt it. There are too many makes and models out there to make this a reasonable thing to do. I imagine that it is just to see things more clearly. A laptop is many layers of densely packed electronics. It would be very easy to hide explosives (in place of the battery, for example) and triggering mechanism in there.

"In place of"? It's trivial to cause a lithium-ion battery battery to explode if you know how. Don't tell TSA, though, or you're going to have a very boring flight.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#98
post #76

Wasn't there a scene in one of the recent Bond movies where a huge pile of cash had been treated in some kind of chemical that turned it into a bomb?

The World is Not Enough is the movie you're thinking of. From 1999, if you want to call that recent; going back 18 of the 55 years of Bond movies.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#99
My theory: they aren't looking for paper, they are trying to rule it out as something else.

My understanding of these scanners is that they colour-code "organic" and "inorganic" material differently. Explosives generally show up as organic.

Now, if you have a block of such organic material in just the right position next to some electronics, the conveyor gets stopped and you will be taken to one side and asked some very direct questions about the contents of your bag.

I know this because I once had a protein bar in the same bag as a portable DVD player and that aisle went into lockdown for about 30 minutes because it looked exactly like a bomb, from all angles, in 3D. Expert called over, agreed they couldn't start the conveyor until they knew it was safe.

My guess is that paper (in the form of small pads) is the commonest cause of this type of false positive.

Re: Why Is the TSA Scanning Paper?

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda doubt those body scanners have anything remotely close to the spatial resolution required to find text written on a sheet of paper.

He said the same band. That wouldn't have anything to do with spatial resolution.

Sorry. I inferred that suggesting this meant (in the vein of this "tinfoil hat time" thread) that the body scanners might have the capability to read text from paper.
Post reply on HN