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Apple’s China Problem

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Re: Apple’s China Problem

#81

Post by valuearb »

staticelf wrote: post #2

> None of that lock-in exists in China: Apple may be a de facto monopolist for most of the world, but in China the company is simply another smartphone vendor, and being simply another smartphone vendor is a hazardous place to be. Don't get that part. I live in Europe and sure a lot of people has an iPhone but I believe strongly that more people have an Android. Doesn't Android have like 80% or more of the world mark…

It's been estimated that Apple makes 70-80% of the profits in the smartphone space. Android/Samsung sell huge volumes of really cheap phones, the users of those phones don't tend to spend money on apps, or content, or anything. Apple only sells premium phones and dominates the premium segment, iOS users still spend more on apps than all of the far more numerous android users combined.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#82

Post by valuearb »

Devid2014 wrote: post #10
staticelf wrote: post #2

> None of that lock-in exists in China: Apple may be a de facto monopolist for most of the world, but in China the company is simply another smartphone vendor, and being simply another smartphone vendor is a hazardous place to be. Don't get that part. I live in Europe and sure a lot of people has an iPhone but I believe strongly that more people have an Android. Doesn't Android have like 80% or more of the world mark…

"Apple may be a de facto monopolist for most of the world" May this is how some peoples from USA see Apple ? But here in EU Apple is just another smartphone vendor and most peoples are using Android.

Let me know when you can buy an iPhone from a different manufacturer. Again, author said Apple has a monopoly on iOS, not smartphones. That iOS monopoly takes about 80% of all the profits from the smartphone market worldwide, BTW.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#83

Post by ganfortran »

thogenhaven wrote: post #38
ganfortran wrote: post #3

Don't forget that China has biggest and most competitive smartphone market in the world, both in specs and price. iPhone is kinda underwhelming in the past year.

Thats Ben Thompsons point, right? That being underwhelming on features doesnt matter in any country but China, because Apple has a moat there: iOS. But iOS doesnt matter in China because there is another OS on top of it: WeChat.

I think the speculation about WeChat is overblown. Wechat is essentially important, however, it is not, even it tries hard to be, an OS yet. And very opposite to what people in the West would think, iOS has one big advantage, that is the privacy control, whereas Android platforms in China, because of the absence of Google, have serious issues of mal/spy/bloat-ware.

So it is not that in WeChat you can package your bag and transfer to other platforms in a free style. No. Even in the west, transfer to Android or transfer back, isn't that much a problem either. The reason I think people don't want to do this is because there aren't many Android phones out there if u are not a fan of Samsung/LG, specially Galaxy phones.

However, China has the most competitive market, phones are offered unlocked like 50% of the price as they sold in the West, and there are many more options/customizations. In that sense, iPhone loses its cool as THE option to go to, even for premium users, like for business people they tend to use Huawei.

Point is, Apple needs to get interesting and excited again, otherwise this won't be the end of its decline in China.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#84

Post by vanilla_nut »

>Unsurprisingly, in stark contrast to the rest of the world, according to a report earlier this year only 50% of iPhone users who bought another phone in 2016 stayed with Apple:

At first, I was confused by this graphic. Then I realized that the author is dramatically misinterpreting it: the graphic actually means that 66.85% of phones purchased in 2015 were made by Apple and 50% of phones purchased in 2016 were made by Apple. So we actually have literally no information about Apple's customer retention in China from that graphic at all. (Unless I'm really reading it wrong?)

I wish journalism majors were required to take a stats class in college. Sigh...

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#85

Post by valuearb »

anjc wrote: post #43
ForrestN wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you may find it creaking, myself and many other people find the experience of using Apple software far better than any competing systems. I wouldn't work somewhere that asked me to use Windows. For me, and maybe I'm overly aesthetically sensitive, it would make my day to day life much worse. This is just to say that the authority with which you dismiss Apple's software as a point of differentiation is probably…

Differentiation also has a precise meaning in literature, and just feeling that software which comes free with Apple hardware is better than other software doesn't indicate product differentiation or a differentiation strategy. That's just personal preference. I'm not saying that you don't/shouldn't genuinely and rightly prefer Apple software, I use Apple devices every day myself. That being said, I'd hazard a guess…

Yea, you don't understand the definition of product differentiation or differentiation strategy, because iOS and MacOS are poster children for both.

You also don't understand that MacOS isn't designed to be a commodity OS that runs on any hardware. It doesn't install with a huge database of video drivers for every possible PC out there. Running MacOS on generic hardware is problematic and not worthwhile, especially when the vast majority of Mac users can get good Mac hardware for less than a fraction of 1% of their billable rate.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#86

Post by valuearb »

anjc wrote: post #32

> hardware differentiated by software such that said hardware can be sold with a margin much greater than nominal competitors running a commodity operating system. Apple's hardware is not differentiated by software. Their creaking software is an ancillary requirement to use their excellent hardware. If their software was their differentiator then Hackintosh's would be more widely used. Secondly, OSX is a commodity op…

By your logic, if Windows was a good enough OS to be a differentiator, everyone would just build their own PCs to save a hundred bucks. Because everyone has the free time, inclination, and skills to build one, and everyone enjoys tinkering with their PCs when they don't run right, instead of actually getting work done.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#87

Post by valuearb »

dilemma wrote: post #37
xiaq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the first part, but the article has a point on WeChat. It is a very good example of how app vendors have stronger brands while smartphones are seen as commodities in China.

No, the article contradicts itself and makes an incorrect claim. First, it says that iPhones are bought as statement pieces, ie their hardware. Then, it says iPhones aren't as popular in China because Androids can use WeChat too. These are incompatible claims.

"First, it says that iPhones are bought as statement pieces, ie their hardware". The author said nothing of the sort, you are projecting your own (incorrect, imho) opinions.

The author said that iOS is significant differentiator and that's why people buy iPhones. Except not so much in China now, because WeChat.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#88

Post by rootusrootus »

endorphone wrote: post #54
yabatopia wrote: post #16

I don't know if most people really consider the OS to be that important anymore, as the author strongly believes. The Windows Surface Laptop is no threat to Apple because it doesn't run macOS. Samsung's smartphones are no threat to Apple because the phones don't run iOS. Then he continues with the WeChat factor to explain the shrinking market share of Apple in China. If you consider China the trendsetter in tech, tha…

By the argument of your first paragraph, Android and iOS are no threat to Windows because they don't run Windows apps. But of course they are, just as Samsung is a threat to Apple, Apple is a threat to Samsung, etc. We are doing a set of tasks and using features and functions that multiple options provide a solution for. Platform tie-in was once a strong bond, but has dramatically weakened. Those people who chose tea…

I agree with this. Aside from simple inertia, switching phone platforms (at least between iOS and Android) these days is pretty painless -- after the first time that is. When I got my first Android it hurt a lot because iMessage. After convincing a bunch of family that it would be fine to get a Hangouts account, I can switch back and forth pretty comfortably now. Apps are basically equivalent. I'm back on iPhone right now because I tired of not getting updates and I no longer trust Google is living up to the "don't be evil" ideal.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#89

Post by guelo »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #84

>Unsurprisingly, in stark contrast to the rest of the world, according to a report earlier this year only 50% of iPhone users who bought another phone in 2016 stayed with Apple: At first, I was confused by this graphic. Then I realized that the author is dramatically misinterpreting it: the graphic actually means that 66.85% of phones purchased in 2015 were made by Apple and 50% of phones purchased in 2016 were made…

I don't think this guy is a journalism major. He's an MBA with experience working marketing and strategy at Apple, Microsoft and WordPress. He's probably had a stats class.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#90

Post by valuearb »

dilemma wrote: post #6

The real problem for Apple in China is that their brand simply isn't as strong as it is in the US. It has nothing to do with WeChat.

If Apple's brand is their only problem in China, then they have an immensely bright future there. The author disagrees with you.
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