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Apple’s China Problem

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Re: Apple’s China Problem

#61

Post by matwood »

skdotdan wrote: post #53

The problem with many tech analysts is that they are Apple fanboys without even knowing that they are. Stating that Microsoft Surface and Samsung S8 are not competitors of Apple just because their products don't run Mac OS/iOS is pure fanaticism at the very least. Nevertheless, I find that the main point of the article is right. But Apple's China problem is also a very important problem for Google (actually, it's wor…

> Stating that Microsoft Surface and Samsung S8 are not competitors of Apple just because their products don't run Mac OS/iOS is pure fanaticism at the very least.

For me they are not. I've used Android on quite a few phones ranging from HTCs to various Nexus devices. It always had weird issues, the most annoying of which was some google process randomly spinning out of control and killing the battery in ~10 minutes.

I'm back on iOS now, and for the most part it works. I see some interesting HW from Samsung, et al, but then I'd be forced to use Android again. So yeah, I think the author has a point without being a fanatical about Apple.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#62

Post by mark-r »

yabatopia wrote: post #16

I don't know if most people really consider the OS to be that important anymore, as the author strongly believes. The Windows Surface Laptop is no threat to Apple because it doesn't run macOS. Samsung's smartphones are no threat to Apple because the phones don't run iOS. Then he continues with the WeChat factor to explain the shrinking market share of Apple in China. If you consider China the trendsetter in tech, tha…

It's all about platforms. In most of the world, the OS is the platform; it determines which apps are available and what the UI looks like. In China, apparently WeChat is the platform and the OS becomes irrelevant.

The closest analogy for the rest of the world is the web browser. Chromebooks are only possible because enough functionality is available through the browser without any direct access to the OS whatsoever.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#63

Post by xiaq »

One thing Apple has totally messed up in the Chinese market is localization. When I read Apple advertisements or texts on macOS or iOS UI, I always feel it's some foreigners who just learned to speak Chinese, yet trying to use Chinese in creative ways. They are totally understandable, but just that.

I think this at least partially affects Apple's brand building in China.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#64

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

skdotdan wrote: post #53

The problem with many tech analysts is that they are Apple fanboys without even knowing that they are. Stating that Microsoft Surface and Samsung S8 are not competitors of Apple just because their products don't run Mac OS/iOS is pure fanaticism at the very least. Nevertheless, I find that the main point of the article is right. But Apple's China problem is also a very important problem for Google (actually, it's wor…

They're not competitors in the segment of the market providing macOS, because they don't run it.

Some people will be willing to look past it, but it's still a huge advantage for Apple. When I'm choosing my next laptop, though the Surface and the Dell XPS might seem nice, neither of them run macOS, and that's probably a dealbreaker for me unless Apple's laptops get really far away from my needs.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#65

Post by oflannabhra »

gnrlist wrote: post #56

Chinese people want the Apple brand they don't care about iOS. If iOS was the status symbol it would get pirated and installed elsewhere. Apple has a strong brand because of it's history as a premium device company internationally, that's all. Their brand was their first mover advantage in China but now Chinese companies are closing that brand gap and since WeChat rules the software side Apple is going to have a hard…

Yep, that is the exact point of the article, but much more succinct.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#66

Post by baq »

ianai wrote: post #58
Kurtz79 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WeChat is an application, not an Operating System. The point it is that is so widely used in China that the OS it runs on is basically indifferent to the user, since he will spend most of his time in the app itself, which replaces/supplement/embeds many services that the OS (or other third party apps) usually provides.

How does that get through Apple's restrictions?

Consider what are the consequences of not having WeChat on iOS. In a sense, Apple is held hostage.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#67

Post by gnrlist »

oflannabhra wrote: post #65
gnrlist wrote: post #56

Chinese people want the Apple brand they don't care about iOS. If iOS was the status symbol it would get pirated and installed elsewhere. Apple has a strong brand because of it's history as a premium device company internationally, that's all. Their brand was their first mover advantage in China but now Chinese companies are closing that brand gap and since WeChat rules the software side Apple is going to have a hard…

Yep, that is the exact point of the article, but much more succinct.

Aside from it's verbosity, the only nit I have with the article is that it muddles it's own point by talking about iOS as a monopoly.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#68

Post by davidf18 »

In the US at least, most of the phone is paid for by monthly installments as part of the plan so a phone which might sell for nearly $1K elsewhere appears to cost only $200 here. That has helped Apple immensely.

For my needs living in NYC with tall buildings, with need for good signal, voice quality, I use yearly iPhone upgrade on Verizon network. Verizon buys the $1K iPhone and I pay them back at less than $1.50 per day.

iPhone platforms have greater security than Android based ones and that is important to me as well.

The iPhone - Mac integration is great and minimizes complexity making my daily life easier.

Also, where I live, there are many Apple stores including a 24/365 for service for a device which is essential for my work.

I've had iPhones for 4.5 years and in that time period I've had to replace the phone 3 times for various reasons. Walking into the store for replacement is great.

But other people use phones for different reasons and most don't have the same constraints that I have.

Apparently WeChat in China makes the platform generic for most.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#69

Post by brianwawok »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #64
skdotdan wrote: post #53

The problem with many tech analysts is that they are Apple fanboys without even knowing that they are. Stating that Microsoft Surface and Samsung S8 are not competitors of Apple just because their products don't run Mac OS/iOS is pure fanaticism at the very least. Nevertheless, I find that the main point of the article is right. But Apple's China problem is also a very important problem for Google (actually, it's wor…

They're not competitors in the segment of the market providing macOS , because they don't run it. Some people will be willing to look past it, but it's still a huge advantage for Apple. When I'm choosing my next laptop, though the Surface and the Dell XPS might seem nice, neither of them run macOS, and that's probably a dealbreaker for me unless Apple's laptops get really far away from my needs.

Switched to do a 13 and ubuntu finally. For a dev, we have another choice at least.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#70

Post by MBCook »

gnrlist wrote: post #67
oflannabhra wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that is the exact point of the article, but much more succinct.

Aside from it's verbosity, the only nit I have with the article is that it muddles it's own point by talking about iOS as a monopoly.

I don't think so. Ben's point (as I took it) was that Apple has a monopoly on iOS (because only their devices have it) and that gives them a very strong hold on users, there is too much friction in switching to Android.

But in China if people don't really care about iOS that monopoly is worthless and their normal strategy for retaining users doesn't work, which means they're competing on a completely different basis in China than anywhere else.

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