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So You Want to Make Games

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Re: So You Want to Make Games

#31

Post by JabavuAdams »

ungzd wrote: post #27
madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

Mobile games are focused on exploiting addiction on people vulnerable to them. There are no interesting gameplay process, no nice graphics, no art. Traditional games vs mobile is the same as journalism vs clickbait. Mobile games are in the same league as downloaders, browser toolbars, doorway pages.

> Mobile games are focused on exploiting addiction on people vulnerable to them.

True.

> There are no interesting gameplay process.

Maybe.

> [...], no nice graphics, no art.

False.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#32

Post by JabavuAdams »

madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

It's a terrible business, though. Making an indie game you'll be lucky to draw a salary. Much better to get paid market development rates and make a game on the side, or go work for one of those "evil" monetization focused game companies.

Case in point: Toronto, Ontario has a lot of indie game devs. Ontario has great government grants for interactive digital media, through the OMDC.

All that said, the typical indie game studio here is marginal, surviving year-to-year off government grants.

If you actually manage to make a profit and draw a salary ($50k), you're a big success story.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#33

Post by JabavuAdams »

animal531 wrote: post #2

Focusing only on for example the Apple app store in deciding whether to go into making games or not is not a great idea, since it's by far the most congested (as the article also shows). But for the moment other markets also exist, such as desktop where one can still be very successful (as long as you can hit a certain level of word of mouth).

To be successful, one still has to be focused on the business, something that many devs complaining about the app stores are not.

Game development is more of a passion / calling / addiction than a rational business decision. It's an even dumber idea than startups. But if it's all you want to do, then...

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#34

Post by JabavuAdams »

One thing I would strongly recommend against is going to a private game-development school. These tend to market very aggressively and be very expensive. The education provided is hit-or-miss, largely dependent on the specific high-turnover instructors you get.

In my province, you can pay > $25k for an 18 month program. At the end of that program, only the top handful of programming students will actually know how to code vs. copying and pasting.

If there's any way you can get into a college or university CS or engineering program, do that instead. Four years may seem like a long time, but if you include the time spent looking for a job after your 18 month program, it could easily be 4 years before you get your first reasonably paying game gig. Also, you can do a four-year engineering degree for about 8-10k a year in Ontario. Co-op can help defray those costs further and make you more attractive for that first full-time job.

Universities all have game-development clubs. Also, these are the people you're competing with for that first job. I would much rather hire a CS grad from University of Toronto, or University of Waterloo than someone who barely knows C# from a game school.

The flip-side is that there are exceptions. It's possible to find those diamonds-in-the-rough who weren't able or willing to go to university.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#35

Post by MrMember »

swsieber wrote: post #28
ungzd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile games are focused on exploiting addiction on people vulnerable to them. There are no interesting gameplay process, no nice graphics, no art. Traditional games vs mobile is the same as journalism vs clickbait. Mobile games are in the same league as downloaders, browser toolbars, doorway pages.

I would say that the top games have good gameplay process, nice graphics and good art. I've played some where I've thought - "oh, this game would be so much better if it wasn't stuck in a IAP addiction mode". I never get very far in these games due to the artificial IAP barriers.

I've pretty much given up on mobile gaming. People just aren't willing to pay money for a quality game. These days if I play a game on my phone or tablet it's usually a board game (one of the few genres that's mostly free from exploitative IAPs) or an emulator.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#36

Post by wst_ »

maccard wrote: post #23
dagenleg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>plenty of examples of mobile games which are deeply rewarding and fun to play Really?

Sure. Reigns, Hopiko, Alto's Adventure, You must build a boat, Monument Valley, Hearthstone(arguable), Clash Royale(again arguable), Vainglory, Crashlands. That's what I've got installed on my phone, I'm sure there are plenty more.

So you listed few and can only assume others. Looks like an opinion to me. Comparing to average 500 games application per day it does not look like too plentiful.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#37

Post by madshiva »

jads wrote: post #19
madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself I'd argue that this focus isn't necessarily to just make money, but to make money that mobile users simply refuse to pay up front. Most people don't think twice about paying anywhere from $10-$60 for a game on PC or consoles. Yet many will leave complain about an app or game because it costs $5. Take the N…

Because they didn't realize that the mechanism of the game make there pay for playing like it's a coin machine.

You can't compare micro transactions in game that you already pay and candy crush, you didn't pay for a full game, if people want spend their money they are free to do so, I'm also free to call them dumb for that reason. I personnaly play CS:GO sometimes and I have sell all my skins, cases, etc., and thus make the game free for me more that 15$ earned, then I can only say that others people are a little dumb to pay for that.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#38

Post by madshiva »

emsy wrote: post #25
jads wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself I'd argue that this focus isn't necessarily to just make money, but to make money that mobile users simply refuse to pay up front. Most people don't think twice about paying anywhere from $10-$60 for a game on PC or consoles. Yet many will leave complain about an app or game because it costs $5. Take the N…

While I disagree with the word dumb and find "ignorant" more suitable, your Candy Crush comparison is bad. Jonathan Blow nailed it in this presentation: https://youtu.be/AxFzf6yIfcc?t=2436

yes, it's better :) thanks
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