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So You Want to Make Games

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Re: So You Want to Make Games

#11

Post by p0nce »

animal531 wrote: post #2

Focusing only on for example the Apple app store in deciding whether to go into making games or not is not a great idea, since it's by far the most congested (as the article also shows). But for the moment other markets also exist, such as desktop where one can still be very successful (as long as you can hit a certain level of word of mouth).

You can have people very happy about your product and still little to no "word of mouth" if your product is niche.

For a niche product each happy user would have to tell many other potential user to make one conversion. So practically niche products rarely get viral.

Hence why Steam focuses on games that can be sold easily, not especially those with the happiest users. To make a game greenlit the voters vote on the screenshots and the beginning of the video, not the gameplay.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#12

Post by _pmf_ »

madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users

The PC AAA developers a very, very quickly catching up in dumbing down games; DA:Inquisition comes to mind.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#13

Post by maccard »

madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself

That's a sweeping generalisation. Mobile games are not "focused more on money than the game itself". There are plenty of examples of PC games which are straight up cash cows, just as there are plenty of examples of mobile games which are deeply rewarding and fun to play. To make statements like that is insulting to both sides.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#14

Post by clarry »

animal531 wrote: post #9
LoSboccacc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top paid app on the app-store show games that are of significant age (minecraft, plague inc) or with significant name recognition (monopoli, risk, etc) hinting at a stagnant market for independent, paid for games. Now, evidence is a hard word, but I've the hunch that unless your game is an addictive style freemium incremental, all other genres are as of today more suited to desktop, because of user disinterest on pay…

Pretty much this. It's far more difficult to gain recognition and get word of mouth going on the app store (due to volume), combined with the lower selling point as compared to desktop (for example $1 vs $15). People don't want to pay up front for games and the race to the bottom on prices have really hurt the little guy. All graphs I've seen of sales on the app store show an inordinate amount of sales for the top se…

And then I guess mobile gamers don't feel so excited and invested in their $1 break time distraction that they would talk about it on chats, streams, forums, or with friends. Heck I don't think I've ever seriously heard people discuss a mobile game, whereas discussions or passing mentions of PC & console games (both old and new) happen all the time on various media.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#15

Post by dagenleg »

maccard wrote: post #13
madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself That's a sweeping generalisation. Mobile games are not "focused more on money than the game itself". There are plenty of examples of PC games which are straight up cash cows, just as there are plenty of examples of mobile games which are deeply rewarding and fun to play. To make statements like that is ins…

>plenty of examples of mobile games which are deeply rewarding and fun to play

Really?

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#16

Post by swsieber »

maccard wrote: post #13
madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself That's a sweeping generalisation. Mobile games are not "focused more on money than the game itself". There are plenty of examples of PC games which are straight up cash cows, just as there are plenty of examples of mobile games which are deeply rewarding and fun to play. To make statements like that is ins…

But I think he has a point - the mobile game industry, in general, is more focused on money than good games.

Sweeping generalization? Yes. Holds true for the most commonly installed games - I think so?

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#17

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

swsieber wrote: post #16
maccard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself That's a sweeping generalisation. Mobile games are not "focused more on money than the game itself". There are plenty of examples of PC games which are straight up cash cows, just as there are plenty of examples of mobile games which are deeply rewarding and fun to play. To make statements like that is ins…

But I think he has a point - the mobile game industry , in general, is more focused on money than good games. Sweeping generalization? Yes. Holds true for the most commonly installed games - I think so?

Then isn't there a market for mobile games targeted at the more traditional gamer? Example being hearthstone for mobile.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#18

Post by swsieber »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #17
swsieber wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think he has a point - the mobile game industry , in general, is more focused on money than good games. Sweeping generalization? Yes. Holds true for the most commonly installed games - I think so?

Then isn't there a market for mobile games targeted at the more traditional gamer? Example being hearthstone for mobile.

I think there's a market for the traditional gamer. I think mobile games geared towards them get drowned out in the sea of ... optimized filth.

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#19

Post by jads »

madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself

I'd argue that this focus isn't necessarily to just make money, but to make money that mobile users simply refuse to pay up front. Most people don't think twice about paying anywhere from $10-$60 for a game on PC or consoles. Yet many will leave complain about an app or game because it costs $5.

Take the Nintendo 3DS as an example. Games vary in cost, but $20-$40 is most common for many games in the Nintendo Shop and on cartridge. There are very, very few games that are in that price range for iOS, simply because no-one will buy them. Instead, developers focus on IAPs as a way to offset that.

Pricing on mobile is caught between a rock and a hard place. IAPs have a terrible reputation because they're used (sometimes overly) frequently as a way to generate revenue from games that were released for free (or at very low cost). The alternative is to have users pay a fair, up-front price. That's not going to happen as long as people complain that apps cost $5 (which is usually how much that same person just paid for fast food or coffee that they didn't even finish).

>they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual)

That is a sweeping generalization, and wrong. Why is it dumb if someone might be quite happy spending their own money playing Candy Crush on their iPhone? That's no different than someone wanting to use micro transactions in games like Overwatch, Call of Duty, or even a monthly subscription to WoW. Just because you think it's dumb, doesn't mean it is. If they enjoy playing the game, what does it matter?

Re: So You Want to Make Games

#20

Post by jads »

_pmf_ wrote: post #12
madshiva wrote: post #8

Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users (sorry I don't have other word for, and it's not even casual) making game like this is more commercial than a passion for gaming. There's plenty exemple of sucessful game that have only few developper and are better than AAA. I personnaly have started to make game because I like it t…

> Mobile industrie are not the same than game for PC, they are really focused more on money than the game itself, they are for dumb users The PC AAA developers a very, very quickly catching up in dumbing down games; DA:Inquisition comes to mind.

DA:Inquisition was dumbed down? I'm about 20 hours in and find it much more complicated than DA:O and DA2 (or I'm just misremembering those games)
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