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Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

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Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what?

So they misled investigators throughout multiple cities across the United States. Therefore, it's a federal issue. This really isn't that hard to understand.

No. Why it can be made a federal issue has been successfully outlined by others in this thread. Misleading investigators throughout multiple cities, however, isn't the reason.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#292
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, Ross Ulbricht also paid to have 5 people killed. (They of course were not killed, because it was part of the larger sting, but that's irrelevant to his repugnant behavior)

No, he didn't pay. It was a fake chatlog created by the investigators to make him look worse than what he did.

The investigators scamming him doesn't change the fact that he did it. Additionally, there were two instances where he paid to have someone "killed". While the second case is rather sketchy, the first case is much clearer. They even staged the murder for him.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#293
Last weekend, I visited Hamburg with my wife. I was surprised when I was told that I couldn't catch an Uber. However, on each German taxi (you know, the beige ones) there was a sticker prompting me to download the "EUTaxi" (or similarly named) app, which I did.

Brilliant. I was able to summon a car within minutes, and this app also allows for paying via the app.

Uber's biggest threat is, IMO, the creation of a well-working "push to ride & pay" taxi app by other countries that are as similarly well organised as Germany.

For me as a consumer, I could care less if I download Uber or EUTaxi. As long as I get my ride on time, and with a professionally licensed driver.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#294
post #293

Last weekend, I visited Hamburg with my wife. I was surprised when I was told that I couldn't catch an Uber. However, on each German taxi (you know, the beige ones) there was a sticker prompting me to download the "EUTaxi" (or similarly named) app, which I did. Brilliant. I was able to summon a car within minutes, and this app also allows for paying via the app. Uber's biggest threat is, IMO, the creation of a well-w…

I do care whether or not my drivers are forced to purchase a medallion and abide by other silly regulations, because it affects the cost and quality of the service.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems we disagree on too many facts. Like many others, I am critical of and will not financially support Uber's unethical & criminal corporate behavior. If this is what you consider "jump(ing) on the bandwagon" and "drag(ging) us back into the darkness,"--and Uber's behavior doesn't trouble you, so be it. Thankfully we have choices, so, even if the feds seize Uber tonight, exactly the same drivers with exactly the…

> so be it. No offense was meant by my phrasing, FYI. > Thankfully we have choices Yes we do. I think we likely agree on the overall benefits of Uber, but you are more inclined to focus on Lyft as a better instantiation of the idea and I'm just sort of defending Uber because it's fun to do so when everyone hates it.

I'm not offended; its just the opposite of persuasive. And "jumping on the bandwagon" is kind of a conversation ender: if that's how you understood my reply, we're unlikely to understand each other & its not worth the effort to be clear.

I hear you on being a contrarian, but only when there's a compelling argument. Here, I doubt we do agree on Uber--I don't think there are overall benefits.

As I've said, I am not convinced Uber is some huge innovation but it wouldn't matter if it was (aka Google was the 11th search engine), and regardless, democracy and the rule of law are more important.

At any rate, my version of this being fun is being understood. Alas, some fun is incompatible with other fun.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#296

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

But remember, UBER was playing in an unfair world. A world in which the existing Taxi companies had entrenched monopolies and yearly contracts with airports and city councils. And UBER does provide a valuable service to its users. I hate to go back to the days of having to call a yellow taxi cab to take me to the airport and then wonder if they would show up in time or not.

//corrected a typo

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, just for the sake of fun/discussion. Not trying to make any significant point here. > You would be incorrect. Humans, not companies, engage in civil disobedience. Is this a point of observation ("I've never heard of a company doing this"), law ("Companies have no legal grounds to claim civil disobedience"), or logic ("companies cannot act, only its constituent humans act")? If it's the first, I'm claiming to g…

It is relevant for humans in a legal setting; it is not relevant for corporations. I did not say that civil disobedience has no legal significance for humans--I said it has no legal significance for corporations. Nor did I say it was a source of sympathy--I said it could mitigate liability or punishment. While it is not a defense for law-breaking by humans, asserting civil disobedience can mitigate punishment or liab…

Got it. When you had said that it would mitigate punishment, I assumed you meant in a purely unofficial subjective way. Thanks.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#298

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

> 2. Sure, corporations are people too, but, nonetheless, only people engage in civil disobedience. Related, for courts, a company that profits from violating of local laws is not a protester or freedom fighter battling injustice, it is criminal enterprise. This point seems out of place to me. To my understanding as a lay person, the law does not distinguish between a crime committed as civil disobedience and the sam…

If a law is "bad" there are essentially two ways to overturn it. One is to go through the legislative body and have it amended. This is difficult and time consuming, and hard for one person to do. The other way is to go to court, and argue that the law is bad. But about the only way to do that is to break the law. This is where civil disobedience comes in. It isn't a get out of jail free card, it is an opportunity to overthrow the law. If course, if you lose, you can go to jail.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#299

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

2. Sure, corporations are people too, but, nonetheless, only people engage in civil disobedience. Related, for courts, a company that profits from violating of local laws is not a protester or freedom fighter battling injustice, it is criminal enterprise. Why do people still argue that? It makes no sense to me, even as a non-lawyer (but I've watched People's Court :)) Otherwise El Chapo could be arguing the same, I b…

Most people don't know what civil disobedience is in the first place. Civics education in the United States isn't great; even landmark civil disobedience like in the Sixties often elides that these folks paid the piper for their actions. Hell, I never read the Letter from a Birmingham Jail until college.

(Goes without saying that Uber's attempts to make their VCs happy are weak tea in comparison, yeah?)

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#300
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often the actual laundering process is done by a third party who takes a cut. A middleman who provides money laundering as a service to criminals. Under your scheme that person wouldn't be committing a crime and could not be prosecuted. But that's beside the point. The crime isn't "moving money around in unconventional ways," it's lying to the IRS and other government agencies. It's signing your name on all those tax…

If someone commits perjury, convict them of perjury. There's no need to invent yet another crime. But I suspect it's not perjury. If a laundromat has an extra $500k of income and reports it as income, paying all relevant taxes, then so be it. If there is proof that the money came from criminal activity, then convict someone of that crime. Otherwise it's just a hunch.

One of the purposes of making money laundering a crime is that it makes it possible to investigate other crimes. You know the mob is making money and you know they're moving that money around somehow. Making money laundering a crime gives investigators a place to start their investigations. If they think a laundromat is a front for the mob, they can prove that by counting how many people are using it and comparing that to how much money they're putting in the bank at the end of the month. They can then get a warrant to investigate further. A judge shouldn't issue a warrant on a laundromat for investigating a murder when there's no clear thread that connects the two. A judge could however issue a warrant to investigate money laundering when you know the laundromat's books don't add up.
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