Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 596 posts

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#171

Post by MichaelGG »

Mtinie wrote: post #158
MichaelGG wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it was the redesign. Travis talking about how picking a corporate colour scheme was a "process of self discovery" was just too much SV nonsense. Atoms and Bits indeed. Also didn't help they ran a big article about leaving Postgres because they couldn't assume their engineers understand DB transactions. Their example, IIRC, was a dev sending an email inside of a DB transaction​ and not knowing this would consu…

> But hey, in Guatemala I've got no alternative and Uber works great and is far safer than a taxi, so hey... No local upstart competitors that are worth supporting?

Not that I've heard about. A local taxi company has an app that doesn't install properly and won't respond to emails about it. But they are running huge ads talking about how they're so "friendly" and "trusted". At the same time, the taxi drivers are threatening violence if the government doesn't boot Uber.

Uber in Guatemala actually visits the drivers' houses, in addition to requiring police backgrounds on them and so on. It's far safer. The prices are far lower, too. Drivers make more than they'd make working in a call center, where unskilled English speakers can make $600-$700.

It's also providing some investment opportunities. Use Uber's fleet management system to buy a bunch of cars and rent them out to drivers that don't own their own car.

On the whole, Uber, in Guatemala, seems entirely positive.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#172

Post by MichaelGG »

nradov wrote: post #157
MichaelGG wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I think investigators are following me, so I get a friend to drive my car around all day, "wasting" their time. Am I now guilty of a crime? Seems like Uber did the same kinda thing.

If the prosecutor is able to prove intent and you had committed some other crime as well then yes, you and your friend could potentially both be convicted of conspiracy to obstruct justice. This isn't some kind of game; judges don't look favorably on defendants playing tricks.

That sounds as fake of a crime as money laundering. Certainly misleading officials that haven't identified as being on official business should not be a crime.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#173

Post by gotothedoctor »

grandalf wrote: post #144

Edit: Please don't down-vote this. Up-vote it and argue articulately against it! The only thing more embarrassing for authorities than having propped up a corrupt medallion taxi system for decades is this sort of probe. In order to disrupt the corrupt medallion system it took billions of dollars and algorithms to evade the officials who had been tasked by the corrupt medallion industry to leverage small compliance te…

I don't think any of this is true (eg some cities have medallion systems, some don't; some are more & less corrupt). But for argument's sake, lets say all of it is true. So what?

If Uber's big innovation was being able to order a car via an app, its neither that protectable or even all that innovative. Afterall Google was the 11st search engine. Given that each of Uber's rides is significantly subsidized by VCs, it remains unclear if such a service could ever be profitable. And now every competitor, be it Lyft or taxi companies, offers the same service, with exactly the same drivers & exactly the same cars.

Are you suggesting that no matter what Uber & its execs do, folks are supposed to be loyal to Uber because a few years ago it was a hassle to get a taxi?If Uber disappeared, do you really think their competitors would suddenly stop using apps?

Uber

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#174

Post by will_brown »

gotothedoctor wrote: post #162

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

Forget software, here in Miami where Uber drivers were initially operating illegally (cited with violating 2 municipal ordinances each being a ~$1,010 civil fine, but escalates to criminal charge after the 3rd such violation) Uber sent emails to driver training them on avoiding detection (e.g. When at airport take down phone; have drivers sit up front; etc...). I imagine there are similar emails for every county, city that were actively citing drivers for legal violations.

Worse the drivers usually use a Lawyer selected and paid for by Uber, and guess what that lawyer isn't some independent traffic lawyer it's Uber's FL lobbyist. Though these charges are years old, last I check none were resolved and still $2M-$3M in fines owed to Miami.

To this day in Miami, it's not uncommon for drivers to allow undocumented immigrants without drivers licenses to use their Uber car/account.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#175

Post by cmahler7 »

defen wrote: post #38
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #3

It's so strange how quickly all of this happened. Actually I guess it's been awhile. https://twitter.com/dhh/status/504374011711594496 was in 2014, wow.

You know, I remember posting on this site years ago that the Uber CEO was a terrible person (Based on a few interactions I had with him back when UberCab had about 5 employees) and being told by some prominent people that I was wrong. This was back when YC was talking about how "niceness" was a key quality in successful founders. Feels good to have my instincts vindicated.

Kalanick's first startup was a P2P that was sued for 250 billion. He filed bankruptcy and made another P2P startup that got acquired and then started Uber

Every startup he's run has been built around breaking the law

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#176

Post by ZoF »

gertef wrote: post #154
MichaelGG wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I think investigators are following me, so I get a friend to drive my car around all day, "wasting" their time. Am I now guilty of a crime? Seems like Uber did the same kinda thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice#Obstruc...

A real cogent and meaningful contribution. Thanks.

If there is no formally defined investigation, how can you possibly call 'obstruction of justice.'

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#177

Post by dfcab »

will_brown wrote: post #174
gotothedoctor wrote: post #162

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

Forget software, here in Miami where Uber drivers were initially operating illegally (cited with violating 2 municipal ordinances each being a ~$1,010 civil fine, but escalates to criminal charge after the 3rd such violation) Uber sent emails to driver training them on avoiding detection (e.g. When at airport take down phone; have drivers sit up front; etc...). I imagine there are similar emails for every county, cit…

You forgot to add Uber drivers stealing cookies from hotels on Lejune Road right across MIA (Miami International Airport). :)

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#178

Post by mirimir »

MichaelGG wrote: post #141
SilasX wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Uber does have the right to remove you from their service, for mostly any reason -- probably even because they think you're a "narc". But Greyball went way beyond that, and actively misled "suspicious" (probably sting agent) users into thinking cars would come, when they never did, wasting their time. That crosses over into interfering with an investigation -- the combination of "wasting someone's time" and "bec…

What if I think investigators are following me, so I get a friend to drive my car around all day, "wasting" their time. Am I now guilty of a crime? Seems like Uber did the same kinda thing.

Well, there's civil forfeiture ;)

I wonder if that's been used against Uber drivers.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#179

Post by derefr »

MichaelGG wrote: post #172
nradov wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the prosecutor is able to prove intent and you had committed some other crime as well then yes, you and your friend could potentially both be convicted of conspiracy to obstruct justice. This isn't some kind of game; judges don't look favorably on defendants playing tricks.

That sounds as fake of a crime as money laundering. Certainly misleading officials that haven't identified as being on official business should not be a crime.

The point wasn't who you ended up misleading, but that your intent was to mislead investigators in particular. Throwing a brick off the top of a building into a crowded street is attempted murder, even if it doesn't hit anybody, because clearly you had intent to drop the brick on a person's head.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#180

Post by [deleted] »

will_brown wrote: post #174
gotothedoctor wrote: post #162

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

Forget software, here in Miami where Uber drivers were initially operating illegally (cited with violating 2 municipal ordinances each being a ~$1,010 civil fine, but escalates to criminal charge after the 3rd such violation) Uber sent emails to driver training them on avoiding detection (e.g. When at airport take down phone; have drivers sit up front; etc...). I imagine there are similar emails for every county, cit…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN