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Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

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Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#221
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American labor was fucked anyways, Globalism only accelerated trends that would have happened anyhow. Globalism didn't "accelerate" trends that would have happened anyhow, it created those trends. American labor is fucked because of globalism. You might argue the standard of living might have ended up the same under protectionist policies (e.g. poor because of high prices rather than low wages), but I doubt we'd se…

> You might argue the standard of living might have ended up the same under protectionist policies (e.g. poor because of high prices rather than low wages), but I doubt we'd see the same level of inequality under protectionism. The inequality that you see today wasn't caused by globalism, but by tax cuts on the very rich, which incentivized and legitimized overblown executive pay. All that wealth was then funneled in…

> The inequality that you see today wasn't caused by globalism, but by tax cuts on the very rich

Source?

Only a minority of companies in the US even have executives that get the much maligned high pay and bonuses in the last decade or so. What about the massive percentage of wealth that didn't fall into this category? They may have gain significantly from globalism but that was hardly the result of US tax policy alone.

Lets not forget that democrats were in power for the last 8yrs and the state has only grown exponentially since the 1990s under both republican and democrat governments. Just because tax rates weren't the extremes of pre-1980/1970s doesn't make them low. They've been relatively consistent while the middle class income dropped.

The complexity of the tax code and lack of competitiveness with international countries may have heavily influenced inequality. But it was hardly the result of explicit tax reduction for the rich...

The idea that tax havens are something that were merely a matter of weak policy is naive. Even worse than the drug war hawks.

Just because the middle class didn't keep pace with the wealthy doesn't mean only the wealthy were at fault. The fact the middle class lost wealth is hardly singularly the fault of the wealthy. I know this narrative sells well in politics but it's very short sighted.

Even if the US adjusted tax policy to redistribute a larger chunk of taxes towards the middle class it would hardly make a dent in the new reality in the fact there is hardly a middle class economy like there used to be. So you must either develop a new middle class economy or you get temporary perks of taking it from the wealthy. This is the big whale in the room that the Bernie bro guys are ignoring. The likely scenario is that the wealthy would become continually less competitive over the years, shift way more money over seas, and the middle class would be in the same situation with a little bit more money for a short period.

Gov spending under any administration that enacts those policies would largely offset most of the gains going directly to the people regardless (which is good if it results in universal health care, but little else if it's not sustainable).

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#222
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the right frame. Globalism "totally fucked" the american worker in the sense that the western working class broadly hasn't seen any net improvement in quality of life over the last two decades or so. Certainly nothing to compare with the gains seen in the western professional classes. Globalism also quite literally lifted hundreds of millions of non-western (mostly, not exclusively chinese) workers out…

Every country has it's own citizens as a first priority. If a working-class American is harmed to make an already wealthy american wealthier and to make the 5 Indonesians/Chinese/Africans/etc. that wealthy american hires better off then our country should rise up to reject that.

Hm. I've always thought that improving the economies of other nations is in our own ultimate self-interest.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#223
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalism is, and will continue to, happen no matter what the US does. The US needs to figure out how to make it work for the long term. Protectionism won't work. You might as well be a cooper or haberdasher trying to pass laws to keep people using barrels and hats. People keep trying to either spin globalism as evil or good, but it's neither. It's just something that was going to happen no matter what. The US does n…

Protectionism has proven to work well in some cases in history. You are also misunderstanding by conflating globalism with free trade. The two are related, but not the same. You can be for free trade of goods and services, but not for unelected central powers (i.e. an EU, a central bank). Mainstream academic economists are typically free trade, but we have no science to test this theory so just br careful about drink…

The EU is unelected? Member countries send their own representatives to the EU Parliament; they send council members to the European Council.

The ECB is nominated by the EC.

The U.S. Federal Reserve commissioners and chairman are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#224

I think "Advanced Manufacturing Jobs" are going to be roboticist, machine learning and mechanical engineer related. Foxconn is moving this direction and I'm betting Apple thinks they can do it as well as them. Plus possible tax breaks based on Trump's comments.

Apple isn't probably thinking about doing this themselves. Note that Cook is going to "support," not actually build themselves. They are most likely to invest in Foxconn to help them open up shops in the US.

Definitely possible, Apple uses vendors in a way that would be difficult to do themselves. However, if I'm right about the types of jobs this will create it does fall in line with Apple's expertise more than a human built process. Just as they are building their own silicon they may want to own pieces of build process.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same alarmist outcry that happened in the 90s... "India has a billion people who are educated and cheaper! Outsourcing will kill all the tech jobs!" I think the thing that folks keep missing is that technology isn't a zero sum game. So what if there are a shitload of people in the east doing programming cheaper? 9/10 of the 'type' of programming they're doing is grunt work that no one really wants to do a…

china is the most racist and nationalist country in the world and they are doing just fine. Why is the US and Europe the only places that have to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of globalism? Why do China and Japan get free passes while anything done in the west to protect citizens interests is decried as xenophobic?

Created an account just to vote up this comment.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has it's own citizens as a first priority. If a working-class American is harmed to make an already wealthy american wealthier and to make the 5 Indonesians/Chinese/Africans/etc. that wealthy american hires better off then our country should rise up to reject that.

Hm. I've always thought that improving the economies of other nations is in our own ultimate self-interest.

Sure and in the cases where it is in our self-interest then go ahead, but the whole reason we've got this "populist uprising" is because people are looking around and seeing a lot things being done that aren't in their interest.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#228
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protectionism has proven to work well in some cases in history. You are also misunderstanding by conflating globalism with free trade. The two are related, but not the same. You can be for free trade of goods and services, but not for unelected central powers (i.e. an EU, a central bank). Mainstream academic economists are typically free trade, but we have no science to test this theory so just br careful about drink…

The EU is unelected? Member countries send their own representatives to the EU Parliament; they send council members to the European Council. The ECB is nominated by the EC. The U.S. Federal Reserve commissioners and chairman are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.

Many would consider that unelected. I'm sure you draw the line somewhere too: I doubt you consider every government employee elected just because you can draw a chain of responsibility back to some elected official.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

This is the same alarmist outcry that happened in the 90s... "India has a billion people who are educated and cheaper! Outsourcing will kill all the tech jobs!" I think the thing that folks keep missing is that technology isn't a zero sum game. So what if there are a shitload of people in the east doing programming cheaper? 9/10 of the 'type' of programming they're doing is grunt work that no one really wants to do a…

I think it's not xenophobia, the biggest problem is actually wage inequality. It s quite suprising that the US, with all its prosperity (gdp per capita) doesn't have a huge safety net, on the contrary. Meanwhile US corporations and individuals, same ones that outsourced the jobs, have more cash at hand than you can pronounce.

I sometimes believe it lacks a bit of socialism.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#230

I assume since you used the word, you know what it means - what the fuck is globalism? I know what glottalization is, as a concept, a trend, and all of the debates surrounding it for the past four decades, but what the fuck is globalism?

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14266093 and marked it off-topic.
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