Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#101

Post by thevtm » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

atqtion wrote: post #80

colordrops wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protectionism Why not? It works for so many other countries. Is it not a fundamental characteristic of government to prioritize its citizens over others? Without that, we've got a de facto world government with dissolved borders but that only benefits the rich and powerful. If we truly want to give equal rights and privileges to everyone on Earth we should make global governance explicit to make sure the poor and d…

> It works for so many other countries It even worked for the United States. Protectionism was a major component of our policy approach toward industrialization. Protectionism as a mechanism for supporting the development of domestic capabilities is, historically, a well-justified policy position. And if you look to highly protectionist economies today, you'll find mostly developing economies. > Why not? 1. Most impo…

In history everytime a high wages became a problem it was solved through tecnology (mecanization/automation) or by adding more workers (slavery/immigration/outsourcing).

I don't see any reason todays America would be any different.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#102

Post by bitcrusher » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

ryanmarsh wrote: post #9

> Cook told "60 Minutes” in 2015. “I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we’re currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields.” In that interview he also said that the jobs weren't coming back. This is one of the most powerful statements uttered on American labor and employment trends in recent memory. I have shared thi…

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

This is the same alarmist outcry that happened in the 90s... "India has a billion people who are educated and cheaper! Outsourcing will kill all the tech jobs!"

I think the thing that folks keep missing is that technology isn't a zero sum game. So what if there are a shitload of people in the east doing programming cheaper? 9/10 of the 'type' of programming they're doing is grunt work that no one really wants to do anyway.

Will some people feel the 'crunch' from this? probably, in the short term. But technical acumen doesn't sit still. We're not all languishing on our laurels with technology from the 90s while the Chinese are gearing up for total war.

A much BIGGER problem, IMO, is our social policies tending towards overt xenophobia. THAT is what will kill the US and the Western European countries if we don't get off of this nationalist bandwagon that we find ourselves on.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#103

Post by j2bax » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #42

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

Just doing the numbers from a stat standpoint, assuming you need to be in the top 2 percent of intelligence to code, there is a latent pool of 42 million developers in China/India waiting for their "go" signal. Best thing to do imo is hoard and deploy money to investments, because capital is set up to clean labors clock in the coming decades.

>Best thing to do imo is hoard and deploy money to investments

Can you elaborate on this? What sorts of investments are referring to?

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#104

Post by madengr » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

Akkuma wrote: post #69

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

I think this is overestimating how qualified the coders are in the east compared to their western peers. Everyone I've known from Hong Kong decried the education of mainland China. They said the education comes down to repeating book knowledge, so just memorization, and the inability to handle scenarios not covered by that. I'll be more concerned once leading technologies that are used by the rest of the world come o…

Leading technologies are already coming out of China. I'm not a coder, I'm an EE, but China has GaN and nm Si fabs, millimeter wave components, 4G radio technology. They have/had the fastest supercomputer, largest radio telescope, manned spaceflight, and some advanced military hardware.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#105

Post by Chaebixi » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #16

ryanmarsh wrote: post #9

> Cook told "60 Minutes” in 2015. “I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we’re currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields.” In that interview he also said that the jobs weren't coming back. This is one of the most powerful statements uttered on American labor and employment trends in recent memory. I have shared thi…

American labor was fucked anyways, Globalism only accelerated trends that would have happened anyhow. From a long term perspective, its absolutely amazing that the US has managed to export all the factory level jobs to other countries and yet managed to keep the better paying jobs back here in the states. The current lack of (low skilled) jobs in manufacturing has made it clear to those Americans willing to listen: t…

> American labor was fucked anyways, Globalism only accelerated trends that would have happened anyhow.

Globalism didn't "accelerate" trends that would have happened anyhow, it created those trends. American labor is fucked because of globalism.

You might argue the standard of living might have ended up the same under protectionist policies (e.g. poor because of high prices rather than low wages), but I doubt we'd see the same level of inequality under protectionism.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#106

Post by Chaebixi » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #9

> Cook told "60 Minutes” in 2015. “I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we’re currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields.” In that interview he also said that the jobs weren't coming back. This is one of the most powerful statements uttered on American labor and employment trends in recent memory. I have shared thi…

> In that interview [Cook] also said that the jobs weren't coming back.

Wasn't "the jobs aren't coming back" a Steve Jobs quote, not a Cook quote?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and...

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#107

Post by andrepd » Thu, May 04, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #95

I cannot even fathom what it's like to have this kind of warped self-preservation instinct.

What, being rational and objective instead of acting on purely egotistical considerations?

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#108

Post by MisterBastahrd » Thu, May 04, 2017, 6:00 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #9

> Cook told "60 Minutes” in 2015. “I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we’re currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields.” In that interview he also said that the jobs weren't coming back. This is one of the most powerful statements uttered on American labor and employment trends in recent memory. I have shared thi…

They will either come back when enough of the world reaches US middle class status (and thus it becomes cheaper to produce here than abroad) or disappear entirely when automated out of existence. Either way, it makes no sense to pretend that they're likely to come back. It's like spending every paycheck on lottery tickets.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#109

Post by draw_down » Thu, May 04, 2017, 6:00 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #9

> Cook told "60 Minutes” in 2015. “I mean, you can take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in a room that we’re currently sitting in. In China, you would have to have multiple football fields.” In that interview he also said that the jobs weren't coming back. This is one of the most powerful statements uttered on American labor and employment trends in recent memory. I have shared thi…

Indeed, and with the right perspective this all comes as no surprise. The period during which American laborers made a good wage from a job right out of high school and retired on pensions was not the norm, it was the aberration. Sadly.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#110

Post by madengr » Thu, May 04, 2017, 6:00 PM UTC

Akkuma wrote: post #69

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

I think this is overestimating how qualified the coders are in the east compared to their western peers. Everyone I've known from Hong Kong decried the education of mainland China. They said the education comes down to repeating book knowledge, so just memorization, and the inability to handle scenarios not covered by that. I'll be more concerned once leading technologies that are used by the rest of the world come o…

Leading technologies are already coming out of China. I'm not a coder, I'm an EE, but China has GaN and nm process Si fabs, millimeter wave components, 4G radio technology. They have/had the fastest supercomputer, largest radio telescope, manned spaceflight, and some advanced military hardware.