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I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

theguardian.com

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Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#131

Post by moomin »

hammock wrote: post #24
moomin wrote: post #11

Wow, I can't decide if this guy is more morally or intellectually bankrupt. Seriously, "sometimes data behaves unethically"? Data doesn't do anything. Not even analysis or deep learning does anything. People (or programs written by people) execute decisions on the basis of data. It's still the people being unethical. Big data isn't some magic wand that absolves you of moral responsibility, but it's extremely interest…

You ought to continue to read past that. Because you missed his point. He goes on to basically question "ethics" entirely: >What did this tool start spitting out? Every ethnic stereotype you can imagine....People who liked Jay Z were more likely to like Obama – it was one of the statistical truths Facebook couldn’t be seen espousing. I disagreed. Jay Z is a millionaire music tycoon, so what if we associate him with t…

Oh believe me, I caught that bit. And my summary of the entire article stands.

To paraphrase what he's saying here: why is selling things to people who can easily afford them "ok" when exploiting the poverty of historically disadvantaged groups and getting them possibly maimed or killed is not ok?

The fact that he even thinks this approaches an interesting argument reinforces my point: intellectually and morally bankrupt. The guy isn't smart enough to realise that his unanswerable rhetorical questions have obvious answers.

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#132

Post by moomin »

Clubber wrote: post #63
jolux wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not questioning, that's rejecting wholesale without a proper argument as to why. And frankly I don't at all see the ethical analogy between luxury athleisure and payday loans, and it seems to me you'd have to be pretty damn fucking self-deluded to think they're remotely comparable.

>I don't at all see the ethical analogy between luxury athleisure and payday loans The "athleisure" market has bilked people out of $35 billion dollars a year using offshore sweatshops to turn $1 into $20 a pop, mainly by amplifying people's insecurities day after day after day through mass advertising.

No one's saying they're saints. Just not quite as life-ruining to their consumers as payday loans. (Which is a really low bar to limbo under.)

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#135

Post by FussyZeus »

agd wrote: post #2

"And knowing the Facebook sales playbook, I cannot imagine the company would have concocted such a pitch about teenage emotions without the final hook: “and this is how you execute this on the Facebook ads platform”. Why else would they be making the pitch? The question is not whether this can be done. It is whether Facebook should apply a moral filter to these decisions. Let’s assume Facebook does target ads at depr…

> This is the key quote for me. It's clear that if this data can be abused, it will be.

And it's so fucking sad that this is true. This kind of technology could enable Facebook and entities like it to predict when people are feeling depressed, hopeless and suicidal and instead of doing something like presenting a simple message like "Hey are you alright? Do you need some help?" nope, their thought is "this person is RIPE for some well placed marketing."

I get that this guy is likely a product of his industry and he didn't set out from childhood to prey on people's emotions to sell them shit they don't need, at least, in all likelihood. That said I certainly hope there is a hell if for no other reason than this man and all like him really, really belong there.

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#136

Post by jolux »

Clubber wrote: post #63
jolux wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not questioning, that's rejecting wholesale without a proper argument as to why. And frankly I don't at all see the ethical analogy between luxury athleisure and payday loans, and it seems to me you'd have to be pretty damn fucking self-deluded to think they're remotely comparable.

>I don't at all see the ethical analogy between luxury athleisure and payday loans The "athleisure" market has bilked people out of $35 billion dollars a year using offshore sweatshops to turn $1 into $20 a pop, mainly by amplifying people's insecurities day after day after day through mass advertising.

Large profit margins and predatory loan practices are completely different ethically, though.

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#137

Post by metastart »

smt88 wrote: post #122
brokenmachine wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Republicans don't want people to vote? Real question, I'm in Australia and don't know.

That's correct. Get-out-the-vote efforts are seen as partisan. I volunteered to help register people to vote (as a non-partisan without any messaging at all) and was verbally abused by Republicans on the street. Republicans also regularly impose laws to disenfranchise voters. An example is Georgia's law where voters are purged from the rolls every 3 years. Minority voters often only vote every 4 years. The list goes…

Yeah, basically if everyone always voted, the Democrats would generally win. That's why Republicans don't want to encourage voter turnout and also want to suppress ease of voting which usually harms poorer people who tend to be Democratic.

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#138

Post by Clubber »

jolux wrote: post #136
Clubber wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't at all see the ethical analogy between luxury athleisure and payday loans The "athleisure" market has bilked people out of $35 billion dollars a year using offshore sweatshops to turn $1 into $20 a pop, mainly by amplifying people's insecurities day after day after day through mass advertising.

Large profit margins and predatory loan practices are completely different ethically, though.

It's more than large profit margins, it's the constant deluge of propaganda every day that gnaws at people's insecurities. I'm too fat, I'm too skinny, I'm not strong enough, I'm not active enough, I'm not healthy enough, I don't exercise enough, I don't hydrate enough, I don't eat right enough, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not handsome enough, I'm not popular enough, ad nausium. Every day, to an entire population, for generations.

There's a saying in business, you don't sell product, you sell emotion. They are selling, "I want to feel better about myself." They can't sell that until they knock people down several notches. That's what it takes to get people to pay $40 for a shirt then can get for $7.

Just about everyone alive has grown up with that. Let that roll around in your head a while. I think it's worse in scope and what it does to the population.

I've never been screwed by a payday loan service, but I've certainly been subject to that type of advertising for as long as I've been alive, and it's gotten progressively more sophisticated.

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#139

Post by TECHnickAlly »

antongm wrote: post #134
TECHnickAlly wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're too modest. :) People don't expect it.

This might be the first time anyone has accused me of modesty.

Well, if you're still there can I ask you about Silicon Valley's approach to the law.

You say that lawsuits are merely part of "a well-scripted conflict narrative between corporate entities".

Here in Australia our Federal Court recently hit Chevron for $300 million in a tax case that some say will have implications worldwide for corporate tax structures.

Couldn't a new model of law based on that kind of questioning of corporations and corporate governance regulate the Valley (and Wall Street) effectively?

If not what are the holes in such a claim?

Re: I'm an ex-Facebook exec: don't believe what they tell you about ads

#140

Post by dang »

antongm wrote: post #118
dang wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You clearly don't know dick about Would you please stop posting uncivil comments to HN? We ban users who do that repeatedly, and you've done it repeatedly just in this thread.

It might also be awkward to ban the author of the op-ed we're all discussing. Assuming you want an author to respond to comments, that is.

We can do without most authors who post uncivilly.
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