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How to Get into VR

blog.ycombinator.com

171–180 of 221 posts

Re: How to Get into VR

#171
I still haven't drunk the VR kool-aid.

I want to believe. I've used all the software. Played many games. The problems for me are 2 fold

1. I don't have the space. I don't personally know anyone that does. Maybe if you live in the mid-west or the suburbs but there are plenty of cities where people are unlikely to have a space for room scale VR and arguably the non-room scale VR is just not that compelling. Visiting a "VR space" is not ever going to be mainstream so that seems like an issue for mass VR adoption.

2. When I play a good non-VR game I play for hours and days at a time. As an example last month I played Zelda:Breath of the Wild for 70+ hours, 10-14 hours a day. I've yet to play anything in VR that I could stay in for 10-14 hours. In fact many VR games get extremely tiring very quickly. I've played a few where after 10 minutes I'm exhausted. That's doesn't seem likely to become a main form of entertainment.

I've also played at a few VR arcades. Again the games have been fun and immersive but the also felt like thrill rides. In other words, 5-10 minutes and I'm done. Neat experience but just like I could not ride a rollercoaster for 10hrs I can't do VR for 10hrs. It's not about the form, it's about the activity. Searching a room, opening draws, pressing various floating buttons, holding virtual weapons. It's tiring not relaxing like non VR games.

Those issues don't seem solvable. They aren't tech issues they're inherent to the whole concept. Fixes for the space would require direct brain implants so you don't actually move around, you just think you are. I don't know if there is a solution to the 2nd. It's one thing to push buttons to see Nathan Drake climb mountains. It's another to actually do the climbing.

As for the article itself I was a little sad to see VR defined as only

> VR… only tracking, rendering, and display. Tracking is the process of recording the user’s location and orientation in 3D space. Rendering is the process of constructing the appropriate image for a user. Display refers to the fidelity with which the hardware can produce the rendered image."

Even with the problems mentioned above there seems to still be low-hanging fruit.

If you want to be able to talk to people in VR you need to be able to emote. That means you need low-res cameras looking at your eyes and mouth so your avatar can show your expressions.

Similarly, 2 hands is not enough. I need censors on my feet and maybe knees, waist, elbows. In many VR experiences I've played things where bumping up against something with my waist or, kicking something away with my feet, using my knee to close a draw etc seem like natural actions that were thwarted by lack of input.

Re: How to Get into VR

#172
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a real Hyundai/Honda relationship here. They're similar products but the Vive has a slight edge as the more premium VR headset. The lighthouse based tracking is rock-solid while the CV based tracking of the Rift has been historically iffy. Worse, you'll need to spring for a 3rd camera if you want to get serious about roomscale. So that's another $79. The Vive already has an accessory ecosystem as companies ar…

Sigh. Each HMD has pros and cons. You do the industry a disservice by warping facts. Lighthouse tracking is indeed excellent, and tracks a larger volume. However, the Rift's sensor approach is /currently/ almost indistinguishable from Vive's tracking. Its historical performance, significantly hampered by a bad software update, has no relevance to someone considering an HMD today. A third sensor is only $59, not $79.…

Vive's works with multiple people in the same space, Rift's does not. So there is a relevance to someone considering an HDM today.

There are VR experiences were 2+ people are in the same sim in the same space. There are also VR spaces (arcades, tradeshows) where if there are 2 rifts near each other (2 adjacent booths) the rifts interfere with each other

Re: How to Get into VR

#173
Everyone in VR thinks they are creating things for the first time. From 2000 to 2009 I founded and ran the second largest VR company in the world. The number of firsts that my team had was amazing.

What really amazes me is now that VR is growing. Zero people have talked to me about what my team learned. Its like the past never existed...

Re: How to Get into VR

#174

I still haven't drunk the VR kool-aid. I want to believe. I've used all the software. Played many games. The problems for me are 2 fold 1. I don't have the space. I don't personally know anyone that does. Maybe if you live in the mid-west or the suburbs but there are plenty of cities where people are unlikely to have a space for room scale VR and arguably the non-room scale VR is just not that compelling. Visiting a…

"I don't have the space. I don't personally know anyone that does."

Same (NYC). Urban centers have been trending for the last 30 years and have become prohibitively expensive as a result. I can't help but wonder if a future (next?) generation of kids will move back out to the burbs in search of McMansions with two-car garages to use as immersive VR environments.

Re: How to Get into VR

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's $800 + tax for the Vive (you probably want to buy some light stands, too). What's the Rift at that price missing compared to the Vive?

Oh man they aren't even comparable. The tracking on the Vive is for all intents and purposes, perfect. It is truly room-scale and the headset and controllers have sub-millimeter tracking resolution in a space up to 15x15'. The Oculus on the other hand uses image sensors with a limited field of view, so it is much easier to lose tracking on your hands when you move quickly, bend over, or turn around. They will sell yo…

Room scale tracking is just about the only aspect which the Vive is better. Rift is better at everything else. Comfort, performance, controllers, optics, audio, microphone, apps, screen door.

Re: How to Get into VR

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's $800 + tax for the Vive (you probably want to buy some light stands, too). What's the Rift at that price missing compared to the Vive?

There's a real Hyundai/Honda relationship here. They're similar products but the Vive has a slight edge as the more premium VR headset. The lighthouse based tracking is rock-solid while the CV based tracking of the Rift has been historically iffy. Worse, you'll need to spring for a 3rd camera if you want to get serious about roomscale. So that's another $79. The Vive already has an accessory ecosystem as companies ar…

Rift is still cheaper, and wims on a number of other fronts, especially quality of applications. Optics are better, less screen door, sharper to edge of view vs Vive which gets blurry. Oculus controllers are clearly better.

The fact that you bring up Facebook shows that you are a technology zealot, and such people are always adverse to facts.

Re: How to Get into VR

#178

The elephant NOT in the room here is Apple. I think one can safely assume that Apple is very actively doing R&D to solve the very hard problems with VR - and they will probably succeed. It'll probably be a walled garden like iOS, but it will still move the market.

Are you sure? Because everyone is still waiting on the Mac mini and Mac Pro that is overdue. I really doubt apple's doing anything in the VR space.

Re: How to Get into VR

#179
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. Each HMD has pros and cons. You do the industry a disservice by warping facts. Lighthouse tracking is indeed excellent, and tracks a larger volume. However, the Rift's sensor approach is /currently/ almost indistinguishable from Vive's tracking. Its historical performance, significantly hampered by a bad software update, has no relevance to someone considering an HMD today. A third sensor is only $59, not $79.…

Vive's works with multiple people in the same space, Rift's does not. So there is a relevance to someone considering an HDM today. There are VR experiences were 2+ people are in the same sim in the same space. There are also VR spaces (arcades, tradeshows) where if there are 2 rifts near each other (2 adjacent booths) the rifts interfere with each other

The Vive also interferes if two different sets are setup such that the lighthouses overlap. Two of my coworkers had to setup a curtain because of it.

Re: How to Get into VR

#180
A very interesting development in this space is WebVR. You can use WebGL to create widely available (95% of browsers) web-based 3D experience and thanks to WebVR the experience can upgrade to VR for visitors that have VR hardware.
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