Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis • Hacker News Board

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#91

Post by atmosx » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:08 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #77

atmosx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When he went to Germany and tried to force their hands by feigning he might grexit, to his amazement the private response was more or less, how can we help you gtecit? That's very poor understanding of what he did. What he said was we won't accept any more loans that we can't pay back and requested a sort of new deal for Greece which of course, included a large debt haircut. He was never pro-Grexit. He was arguing…

"but if you take the time to read/watch his interview his thinking is crystal clear" And here is, I think, the problem. In general people don't take the time, and that's OK, but then they have not problem in having a strong opinion, that they read in some interested media. My advice to the people so inclined is: check some of Varoufakis (and others) youtube interviews. Read a little about what is going on. Check, for…

Varoufakis is a kind of special case. I believe his personality combined with his charisma, puts fear in the establishment so they needed to discredit him as much as possible.

For example if you read the picture The Economist paints around him, as opposed to Dijsselbloem (Dutch Minister of Finance) who is technically several orders of magnitude inferior is astonishing.

Varoufakis said that when he went to the US, at the beginning of his tenure, someone (Larry Summers?) told him that he'll be the victim of an organised campaign of character assassination by Brussels. I found this claim a tiny bit far-fetched, but on the other hand, the amount of false claims the established media kept throwing at him is amazing.

I came across ppl who thought Varoufakis as a buffoon like Trump, Boris Johnson, etc. and other political figures who can't put two words together. V is not like that at all, he is a intellectual beast, with a surprising ability to simplify rather complex ideas.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#92

Post by sgift » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #53

mc32 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's an interesting guy no doubt, but accounts tell us he was just doing his job. When he went to Germany and tried to force their hands by feigning he might grexit, to his amazement the private response was more or less, how can we help you gtecit? Despite appearances, he did not want grexit and was a ploy to get better terms, but the ecb had already discounted Greece. At least he tried, for sure.

> When he went to Germany and tried to force their hands by feigning he might grexit, to his amazement the private response was more or less, how can we help you gtecit? Despite appearances, he did not want grexit and was a ploy to get better terms.. That's sort of my problem with him though. I don't think of him as either a hero, or a jerk, or a guy doing his job, but simply an idiot. He was trying to bluff with a h…

His hand was quite full as long as Tsipras agreed to do what Varoufakis thought needed to be done. The moment Tsipras decided against him he lost his hand. So, his error was probably to trust Tsipras would do what needs to be done instead of clinging to power.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#93

Post by atmosx » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:12 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #90

atmosx wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OPs perspective in the Greek's mainstream media and elite's perspective. You can't even discuss the eventually of switching currency in the TV. At the same time other countries which are not on the brink of collapse are prepared to face an eventual break up of the Euro (e.g. LePen winning the elections in France) and the only who doesn't have a plan, and God forbid it comes up with one, is Greece...

Please, give me a break. It was the Greek media, and particularly TV shows, that launched Varoufakis to stardom. Even liberal-conservative stations invited him to spread his bs. Just because some of us don't agree with defaulting it doesn't mean we're in the elite or we're serving some agenda. Please, you can do better than that.

> Please, give me a break.

You're confusing Varoufakis with Leventis. Varoufakis, to this day, is always put under unjustifiable strain by the Greek media.

As far as your previous post, it's so mis-informed and ill-conceived, that the fact that you have a right to vote in my country scares the shit out of me.

> Just because some of us don't agree with defaulting it doesn't mean we're in the elite or we're serving some agenda. Please, you can do better than that.

Of course I can, but you're a .NET developer! So I'm not sure you could follow through even if I did :-P

ps. Jokes apart, I understand there are many different opinions in a democracy and I respect that. Let's agree that we disagree...

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#94

Post by cinquemb » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #72

cinquemb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, you can't just default on the debt just by saying so. There's a naivety among mostly Greeks that just by going back to drachma and defaulting on our debt will magically solve all of our problems. In a country that imports pretty much everything that would be catastrophic. Well thinking from a trader perspective, by defaulting and going back to the drachma (and leaving the EU), Greece would have more fl…

The OPs perspective in the Greek's mainstream media and elite's perspective. You can't even discuss the eventually of switching currency in the TV. At the same time other countries which are not on the brink of collapse are prepared to face an eventual break up of the Euro (e.g. LePen winning the elections in France) and the only who doesn't have a plan, and God forbid it comes up with one, is Greece...

>The OPs perspective in the Greek's mainstream media and elite's perspective. You can't even discuss the eventually of switching currency in the TV.

Pretty much how it is everywhere wrt having an actual discussion of practical options on the table (setting aside juicy ad revenue) that might not favor those whose social economic status puts their heads first in line on the not so metaphorical guillotines at some point ;)

I think the citizens of Greece should take page out of the Victoria Nuland play book.

I mean if I had means to be able to talk to the all the pensioners I would:

  - advise them the reach out to any of there family/friends who have (decision making) roles in customs/commodity importers w/ decent import volumes from other EU countries

  - work out a deal where they buy their materials from cheaper non "market economy status" places + flag them through while discontinuing imports from their northern neighbors (already profiting here, because cheaper)
  
  - then pooling their funds and shorting companies/securities with the largest exposure to their non buying before earnings calls, and close out shorts soon after. (profiting on the other end, because why not? but you have to liquidate short positions before the ECB printing press comes to the rescue :P)

Or maybe people will continue to take the raw deal while bent over a barrel with ones pants at their ankles.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#95

Post by stefantalpalaru » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #35

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #3

Varoufakis is a hero to the international working class. His most recent book before this one is also excellent.

Quite a statement. What does it take one to become a "hero" nowadays? And how is he in any way connected to the working class?

> What does it take one to become a "hero" nowadays? And how is he in any way connected to the working class?

As soon as you're born they make you feel small

By giving you no time instead of it all

Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school

They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool

Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty-odd years

Then they expect you to pick a career

When you can't really function you're so full of fear

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV

And you think you're so clever and classless and free

But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see

There's room at the top they're telling you still

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill

If you want to be like the folks on the hill

A working class hero is something to be

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#96

Post by pvg » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:37 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #87

pvg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the fact someone takes out loans they can't repay doesn't 'prove' they don't understand the terms of the loan. I don't think any of the major actors in this look particularly great but it's not like the Greek government found a giant bag of money on their doorstep one day and nobody told them it came with terms.

So, I can lend money without worry and it always will be repaid? And not only that, I will be morally right. What amazing times we live.

I'm afraid I don't follow this trenchant rejoinder.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#97

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:40 PM UTC

ricw wrote: post #46

sgift wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday, there was a news that Greece has reached an agreement for a new round of money in exchange for further cuts to pensions and removal of some tax exemptions. So yeah, it is going to happen again. And again. And again. And all to save a few German and French banks, because politicians feared the results of telling them "you wanted to play in the casino and you lost, now the money is gone" after Lehmann.

Or rather it'll happen again and again until the casino is turned into a viable and competitive economy. I wouldn't blame the Germans and French for trying to contain a crisis at its origin..

> Or rather it'll happen again and again until the casino is turned into a viable and competitive economy.

By what mechanism? Each round of cuts drives up unemployment and poverty, and cutting expenses hasn't solved the deficit because trashing the economy has destroyed tax revenues.

The first few rounds were rationalization, but they were too little too late. At this point the deep restructuring that's still needed is unapproachable - it's too slow and too unpopular, and the economy is already too weak. The recent cuts haven't been sensible and structural, they've been deadline-beating short-term moves to unlock a new tranche.

Germany gains from this, certainly, but by making an example of Greece. It deters other high-debt Euro nations from getting into the same state, but it's not moving Greece closer to functionality.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#98

Post by dragandj » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:42 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #9

pif wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? What did he do, apart from letting the Greeks believe they could choose not to refund the debt?

Morally it's on those who give out loans to make sure that they can be repaid. It's wrong that Greece took these huge loans as well, but also it's wrong to suggest that they have to pay them back. Everyone has the option to default when they are unable to pay and this was clearly the situation for Greece (and probably Spain and Italy, maybe even UK soon enough).

And they ARE making sure the debt is going to be repaid.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#99

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #75

pjc50 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only sensible thing to do is default The problem here was cashflow; defaulting might save you from more loan payments, although actually doing it is quite painful under international law (see Argentina). But Greece needed to take out further loans in order to meet immediate public funding needs - and defaulting would have prevented that, or made it much more expensive. I've turned this over in my head a number of t…

"The only way out" != "trouble free" Obviously Greece needs a balanced budget for defaulting. Too bad it seems to be moving the other way.

The cynical play for Greece might have been trying to schedule their bailouts in a default-friendly way. Accept bailouts, conduct several rounds of aggressive cuts to balance the budget (while financing with tranche funds), blame the Eurozone for them at home, and then default with a balanced budget immediately after a funding unlock.

I'm not sure it was possible - the deficit was too big to close without damaging the economy - but I suspect that leaning on international support while preparing an easy default might have been the best chance.

Re: Review of “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis

#100

Post by elorant » Wed, May 03, 2017, 6:48 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #93

elorant wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, give me a break. It was the Greek media, and particularly TV shows, that launched Varoufakis to stardom. Even liberal-conservative stations invited him to spread his bs. Just because some of us don't agree with defaulting it doesn't mean we're in the elite or we're serving some agenda. Please, you can do better than that.

> Please, give me a break. You're confusing Varoufakis with Leventis. Varoufakis, to this day, is always put under unjustifiable strain by the Greek media. As far as your previous post, it's so mis-informed and ill-conceived, that the fact that you have a right to vote in my country scares the shit out of me. > Just because some of us don't agree with defaulting it doesn't mean we're in the elite or we're serving som…

As far as your previous post, it's so mis-informed and ill-conceived, that the fact that you have a right to vote in my country scares the shit out of me.

Sure, only people who agree with you should vote. I find it quite ironic that this comes from someone who supports a leftist government.

As for being misinformed, you could provide something useful to the conversation by arguing with facts. Because all you've done so far is attacking me personally. Isn't it his fault that we have capital controls enforced? Six months before he took charge the banks were open and working just fine.