Fake IDs in the age of the internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#81

Post by billmalarky » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #67

ue_ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance, but why drink if not to get 'drunk'? Alcohol doesn't taste very nice, so the only advantage I get out of it is that I feel more of a 'buzz'. Is it common just to drink as if it were something that tastes nice, like juice?

Quite confused by your comment. I like beer. And if I could have non-alcoholic beer that tasted as well as standard beer I'd prefer that. (IMO todays alternatives still taste very different.)

To be fair, the alternatives don't taste like standard beer because they lack an important part of the taste, that is, the alcohol.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#82

Post by mhb » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

delecti wrote: post #58

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #5

The mass use of fake IDs of this sort is a bizarrely American problem. In the UK, you're considered an adult at age 18. Most (aside from the unfortunate 17-year-olds) university students can legally purchase alcohol, smoke, or gamble if they so choose. But we don't have MADD, I guess.

I think a big part of the problem is that America is very large and very car focused. If you can reasonably walk to where you're drinking (or more importantly, walk home from there), then you're less likely to drive drunk. Many bars in America essentially require driving to and from.

Isn't this a zoning problem rather than a size problem? Does zoning generally allow having a neighborhood bar?

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#83

Post by StavrosK » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

lvoudour wrote: post #29

StavrosK wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely…

>In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. That's not correct. The law states clearly that alcohol purchase and consumption in public are illegal for underage people [1]. It's also illegal to enter premises where alcohol is served, without being escorted by an adult. Unfortunately the problem with Greec…

> the problem with Greece is not the lack of laws, it's enforcing them

Hey, you don't have to tell me, I'm still waiting for smoke-free bars. Underage drinking is enforced even less than that, but it's a much less widespread problem.

The lack of "on-premises" laws is especially of little concern, as we very rarely get public disturbances because of drunk people.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#84

Post by StavrosK » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:17 PM UTC

lvoudour wrote: post #48

ivl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced it's reasonable to call it a problem. Prohibitionists have done little good, particularly when it comes to lighter drugs, such as alcohol or marijuana.

It's not as big a problem as in northern Europe (alcoholism), but it's still a problem. Alcohol has claimed significantly more victims than all hard drugs combined. I agree prohibition is not the answer, only a change of culture will deter you from e.g. driving when you're drunk. But taking the drunk drivers off the streets or shutting down premises that systematically serve alcohol to kids, is not a bad idea

The farther away from the root cause something is, the less I can get behind it. For example, I'm against banning underage drinking, but I'm for educating teenagers about knowing their limits.

Drunk driving is something that's already illegal (obviously), and the bac threshold is quite low here, although I do wish it was (much) more stringently enforced.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#85

Post by brewdad » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:17 PM UTC

ue_ wrote: post #53

StavrosK wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely…

Pardon my ignorance, but why drink if not to get 'drunk'? Alcohol doesn't taste very nice, so the only advantage I get out of it is that I feel more of a 'buzz'. Is it common just to drink as if it were something that tastes nice, like juice?

You probably haven't found the right alcohol that agrees with you. Wine, beer, spirits (whether alone or in a mixer) have myriad tastes and flavor profiles. Saying alcohol doesn't taste nice is a bit like saying "I could never be a vegetarian because all the foods taste the same."

Not judging you BTW. In the long run not drinking is probably healthier than drinking. Certainly the case if one struggles to control the quantity of drinking.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#86

Post by _jal » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:18 PM UTC

delecti wrote: post #58

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #5

The mass use of fake IDs of this sort is a bizarrely American problem. In the UK, you're considered an adult at age 18. Most (aside from the unfortunate 17-year-olds) university students can legally purchase alcohol, smoke, or gamble if they so choose. But we don't have MADD, I guess.

I think a big part of the problem is that America is very large and very car focused. If you can reasonably walk to where you're drinking (or more importantly, walk home from there), then you're less likely to drive drunk. Many bars in America essentially require driving to and from.

I think the car-orientation of the US would greatly benefit from a European-style approach to teaching kids about alcohol.

I lived in Germany for a year as an exchange student when I was 16, the age at which kids can drink without a parent present. They can't get a license until 18. The vast bulk of kids there, in my experience, seemed to figure out sane drinking well before they got behind the wheel.

Coming back to the US and going to college, I watched kids drinking at 18-19 and driving, because they were inexperienced with alcohol, and in a culture that tends to encourage binge drinking.

It'll never happen; the US simply seems culturally incapable of healthy approaches to easing kids through becoming adults on a number of dimensions.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#87

Post by StavrosK » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:18 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #66

StavrosK wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, but you could say the same about many behaviours that aren't currently being age-restricted. Even drunk kids will just have a bad next morning, rather than go out and cause larger-scale problems like vandalism (although plenty do that sober).

Unless they can drink and drive. Self driving cars should probably fix this someday. All other cars should have mandatory ignition interlocks for breathalyzing. Someone should invent an bluetooth-connected breathalyzer which at least annoyingly beeps when you drive until you pass. It worked for seatbelts! Kids used to not wear then until the beeping made it more annoying to not do it. Annoyance is a big motivator.

You got downvoted, but I agree with your comment. I disagree with the reasoning of "if you let kids drink, they'll definitely drive afterwards!", but I agree with stronger drunk driving enforcement.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#88

Post by StavrosK » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:19 PM UTC

agalarza wrote: post #56

ue_ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance, but why drink if not to get 'drunk'? Alcohol doesn't taste very nice, so the only advantage I get out of it is that I feel more of a 'buzz'. Is it common just to drink as if it were something that tastes nice, like juice?

Not everyone shares your opinion on alcohol not tasting very nice.

Not everyone has to. He was expressing his own opinion, and asking a question. You don't have to be rude.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#89

Post by StavrosK » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

ue_ wrote: post #53

StavrosK wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely…

Pardon my ignorance, but why drink if not to get 'drunk'? Alcohol doesn't taste very nice, so the only advantage I get out of it is that I feel more of a 'buzz'. Is it common just to drink as if it were something that tastes nice, like juice?

I think it's too bad that you got downvoted for asking a reasonable question. I don't like the taste of alcohol at all either, and I never drink because of that, but yes, I do think that most people acquire the taste. My girlfriend, for example, both likes the taste of wine and the "happiness" she gets after two glasses.

Re: Fake IDs in the age of the internet

#90

Post by snovv_crash » Wed, May 03, 2017, 3:21 PM UTC

ue_ wrote: post #53

StavrosK wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely…

Pardon my ignorance, but why drink if not to get 'drunk'? Alcohol doesn't taste very nice, so the only advantage I get out of it is that I feel more of a 'buzz'. Is it common just to drink as if it were something that tastes nice, like juice?

There is a difference between a "buzz" and vomiting in the street. The argument I've seen is that by not giving teens an outlet with lower concentrations (eg beer, wine) from a younger age (16, like Europe), the USA doesn't let its youth learn to manage alcohol consumption in a healthy way; this results in more crazy behaviour and poisoning cases.