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Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

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Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#341

Post by look_lookatme »

CPLX wrote: post #260
vram22 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The largest national/ethnic group contributing to the American population is German, followed by the British Isles/Ireland I would have thought people from the British Isles were the largest group, based on what I've read about America, the Pilgrims, etc. Is that wrong?

Yes that's what people think instinctively but it's incorrect. Part of the issue is that two world wars served to erase tremendous amounts of the visible cultural legacy of the German influence on the US, streets and towns were renamed, biergardens turned into bars, and so on. The culinary influence is right there in plain sight though if you look for it, from the names of our big mainstream brewing companies to our…

BBQ, too. For instance, the Texas style of smoked BBQ is rooted in German immigration to central Texas.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#342

Post by Markoff »

vlan0 wrote: post #62
metaphorm wrote: post #33

this rarely gets mentioned in these articles but it's extremely important. The Chinese food culture is substantially different than the Western food culture, and I don't just mean the items on the menu. Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked. They have created a market that is effi…

Not even raw fruit?

of course they eat all kinds of raw fruit and vegetables, tomato is pretty much considered equal to apple, you will see people in streets of Beijing holding it and biting it like apple, same goes for cucumber which is especially popular in summer as alternative to ice cream to cool you down

speaking from perspective of someone who lived years in China with real Chinese, ignorance of previous poster is unlimited

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#343

Post by Markoff »

metaphorm wrote: post #72
vlan0 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even raw fruit?

many fruits have rinds or peels that are removed before eating. those that aren't, well, they aren't so popular, and they are typically washed and peeled before serving. I've never seen anyone in Chinatown take a bite out of a totally raw, unprocessed apple.

please don't call ABCs Chinese, apparently one billion Chinese would disagree with your comment, apples are extremely popular, so are mandarins, tomatoes and nuts, all raw in China

real Chinese eat lot of raw stuff, if ABCs don't it must be some of their local fetish

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#344

Post by Markoff »

schnevets wrote: post #296
theprop wrote: post #291

280+ comments and no one has mentioned roughly how much cheaper Chinatown produce is relative to other NYC grocery stores (I didn't see it in the article either). Anyone care to say?

Your mileage may vary, but my NYC grocery routine involves a nearby no-frills supermarket (Key Foods) and a trip to a local Asian Grocer. There is usually a 40-60% discount in price at the Asian Grocer. Red Peppers costing $1/lb at the grocer; spinach is $2 for a much more generous bushel compared to the supermarket's offering; seasonal berries and other fruit tend to be unpredictable, but I have seen blackberries an…

those sounds like prices of regular European supermarket,I was under impression that US supermarkets we supposed to be even cheaper than European

these things are permanently in promotion rotating between various supermarkets: 1kg banana 1.1€, 1kg grapes 2-2.2€, bunch of fresh spinach 1.2-2€, etc

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#345

Post by zhte415 »

metaphorm wrote: post #77
ithinkinstereo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked. That's not strictly true. There are plenty of classical Chinese dishes - many of them family type dishes - that are composed of raw vegetables. Also pickling is pretty big in Chinese cuisine, but I guess that's not "raw" in the technical se…

> Lastly, Chinese people love raw seafood - sushi, oysters, etc. Which Chinese people? There are approximately zero sushi restaurants in Manhattan Chinatown. There are a whole bunch of sushi restaurants in adjacent SoHo, which is filled with non-Chinese yuppies. anecdotal: took my Chinese co-worker to The Pokespot takeout for lunch and he immediately turned around and went somewhere else when he saw that the menu con…

Fair question. Easiest answer is "China is a big country" but that isn't the best answer.

Raw seafood is pretty popular in coastal areas of Shandong and Liaoning. Cold seas and pretty easy to identify as fresh or not.

Raw veg in the Northeast in general is fine depending on what it is. Spinach should be cooked because of the way its grown (nightsoil not uncommon) but peppers/radishes OK raw (hanging fruit).

Simply pragmatic food culture responses to how food is sourced, and habits of what's OK or not. A Guangzhou person is unlikely to be OK with raw crawling shrimp in a salad in Panjin, and a Panjin person complains about how seafood in Guangdong is tasteless as the sea is too hot so the seafood grows too fast (despite these conditions making it plentiful).

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#346

Post by rsynnott »

stcredzero wrote: post #91
metaphorm wrote: post #33

this rarely gets mentioned in these articles but it's extremely important. The Chinese food culture is substantially different than the Western food culture, and I don't just mean the items on the menu. Chinese don't eat raw foods at all, and especially not vegetables, which they correctly (by the standards of Chinatown produce) view as being unsanitary until thoroughly cooked. They have created a market that is effi…

The Chinese food culture is substantially different than the Western food culture, and I don't just mean the items on the menu. Things I've noticed about the particular Chinese food culture of my girlfriend: Ginger goes in Chicken soup. Garlic does not. Broccoli is only cooked until bright green. Black pepper is used, basically never. All vegetables are to be rinsed, even the things in Trader Joe's packages that say…

> Broccoli is only cooked until bright green.

I mean, that's the correct way to cook it in any context, I would have thought. The whole massively overcooking vegetables thing is thankfully mostly dying out now.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#347

Post by rsynnott »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #140
rmxt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is downvoted. California, like many other jurisdictions, seems to make a distinction between groceries/"raw" foods, and "prepared foods" when it comes to sales taxes. Unprepared foods are generally exempt from sales tax, while store-prepared foods are not exempt. E.g. an unsliced bagel in NY is untaxed, but a sliced bagel can/must be taxed. Fruit and vegetables likely fall into the untaxed category.…

It is more complex that that: hot food might not be taxed if it is "to go" (Starbucks and their breakfast sandwiches ....), Whole Foods will always apply tax to its food bar items, the ice cream parlor down the street will apply sales tax if you say "for here" but not if they assume take out. It is very very confusing, and I haven't really figured it out yet.

Sales tax on food in general tend to be pretty arcane. Notoriously, McVities sued the British revenue services to have some of their biscuits classified as cake instead of biscuits, because there's no VAT on cake. (They won.)

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#348

Post by rsynnott »

kbutler wrote: post #68
s0rce wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I met people in London who also pay people to grocery shop for them. For most staples I'm pretty sure this could probably be cheaper then having a grocery store in SF, they could have a warehouse in Fremont.

We could call it "HomeGrocer" or maybe that's too specific - how about "Webvan"? (I agree though, I think this is something that is going to happen - just have to find the right business model at the right time.)

In the UK and Ireland the big supermarket chains do deliveries for cheap (7.50 euro per month from Tesco, for instance, or a few euro per shot if you pay as you go). The catch is that it is generally believed that, at least outside certain high-density urban areas, they're doing this at a loss; it may not be sustainable.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#349

Post by rsynnott »

Markoff wrote: post #344
schnevets wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mileage may vary, but my NYC grocery routine involves a nearby no-frills supermarket (Key Foods) and a trip to a local Asian Grocer. There is usually a 40-60% discount in price at the Asian Grocer. Red Peppers costing $1/lb at the grocer; spinach is $2 for a much more generous bushel compared to the supermarket's offering; seasonal berries and other fruit tend to be unpredictable, but I have seen blackberries an…

those sounds like prices of regular European supermarket,I was under impression that US supermarkets we supposed to be even cheaper than European these things are permanently in promotion rotating between various supermarkets: 1kg banana 1.1€, 1kg grapes 2-2.2€, bunch of fresh spinach 1.2-2€, etc

Fruit and vegetables seem to be weirdly expensive in the US, for some reason; meat and processed foods are much cheaper than they are in Western Europe, though. It makes sense that meat would be cheaper (considerably different and mostly lighter regulation on animal husbandry and slaughter, plus the whole corn subsidy thing) but the expensive vegetables never made sense to me.

Re: Why Chinatown Produce Is Cheap (2016)

#350

Post by lkbm »

mikekchar wrote: post #300
smallnamespace wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is actually a terrible thing in the long run for one simple reason: fisheries are being destroyed everywhere [1], and the US is the only nation currently with the clout to really push to change this. But since seafood isn't even on most Americans' radar and we live in a democracy, it's very unlikely any politician will ever spend political capital on it. Fisheries are being destroyed is because blue water fi…

I don't really like getting into political arguments, but I'd like to point out that the US is not really that much more forward looking than other nations wrt fishery conservation. They, after all, increased quotas for pacific salmon fishing that decimated the Canadian fisheries for years. Why? In retaliation for the unsustainable Canadian softwood lumber prices (that were shutting down all the US mills). It's polit…

When I read "the US is the only nation currently with the clout to really push to change this", I don't interpret that to mean the US is/would be more sensible about protecting fisheries. It sounds to me like smallnamespace is proposing that there's a coordination problem--tragedy of the commons/prisoners dilemma, I would assume--and you need one big pushy guy to insist we all follow sensible rules.

You don't need an especially socially responsible or forward-thinking entity to solve coordination problems. You just need one that's able to push hard enough to make everyone fall in line.

Something like the UN/WTO would ideally serve that purpose, but seems like no one wants to give them much clout. I assume the big people prefer to keep the clout in their complete control and the small guys know the big guys would still have stuff like permanent seats and veto power.

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