Live data from Hacker News

Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

reuters.com

71–80 of 80 posts

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#71
post #54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are they a 150 Billion dollar industry? They must be doing something right.

it seems that in this case, two wrongs show as right: 1. The CIO/CTOs are too easily pushing the responsibility to such Indian IT companies. You know, easy to blame someone else and save money in the same time. And get some shares up too. 2. The Indian companies use very deceptive means to capture this market. Simply, they lie about their competencies. It happened in multiple occasions when we got send from the india…

Several times I've seen a talent-switcherchoo in play. The on-site transition team sent by ${OUTSOURCER} is usually top-notch, experienced folks who know the technology no matter how niche. ( CICS, Siebel and SAP for example ).

They'll spent three or six months on-site deep-diving the system and preparing to transition it back to their home office and meanwhile all the management-suits are nodding at the excellence of their outsourcing idea.

Once the project transitions, it's booted to a team of just-graduated staff who attempt to follow the documentation created by the transition team, and the rock-stars are presumably sent onto another on-site project. That's when the pain starts and by then it's too late; the local SMEs have all been let-go or reassigned.

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#72
post #27

Complete PR BS. Infy yearly profits are 2B. Assuming an average US worker costs $100K a year it is going to cost them $1B + additional expenses not to mention it totally defeats their core skill of using cheaper human capital from India. Infy is playing a long game where it will employ F1 visa students on OPT and perhaps get better chances of H1B lottery + targeting H4 EAD. It is pointless to hire American. It defeat…

Hire American project managers and have them manage teams in India. Makes for good PR and hedges against the H1B visa program getting the axe during the Trump era. Seems like good business sense to me.

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because if that's the case, that clearly warrants a few lawsuits about wage discrimination in American companies. Interesting. Could you detail out this a bit more, legally? I'd like to know the specific law which makes this "discrimination" illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 ? So if in the same company an American is getting more salary for the same kind of work than an Indian counterpart on H-1B visa, that's clear discrimination on race or national origin, both outlawed by the above mentioned act.

I think the more pertinent law would be "The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA)" - interesting! It seems that in order to solve the discriminatory pay problem one needs to just enforce the existing laws and do their job.

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/nationalorigin.cfm

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#74
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they're doing right is providing minimum viable technical ability at bargain basement prices. One wonders how that's going to work in a situation where their costs are dramatically higher because they're hiring Americans.

Maybe the cost of an American has come down. Maybe Americans are willing to work at the rates Indians have been quietly working at. As Jack Ma would say if the damn phone costs 50 bucks to make why should an American business think it can forever keep selling it for 600 bucks. Things rebalance all the time.

On the contrary. Even in Indiana, domestic developer salaries are skyrocketing. Also, nobody--no American, especially--has any desire to work for Infosys.

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#75
post #3

Hopefully with decent working conditions

It will be better conditions than those offered to the Indians, because American worker is not shackled to Infosys:

1) with a H1b visa that'll be renewed only for the duration of contract (sometimes renewed only for 6 months, but regularly)

2) with a greencard application, which means no need to obey orders of thy master / manager and nor work like a slave, just to ensure the green card application is not in jeopardy.

3) with excruciatingly long wait of greencard (for those born in India it'll soon be > 20 years wait)

4) because switching to an another employer is just as simple as signing an offer letter and filling I-9. Another company wont go through the painful H1b process

These reasons, are applicable to non-Americans too, as long as they are not born in India or China.

So, Infosys hiring Americans will definitely turn the tables against India based outsourcing companies like Infy and TCS.

But this still doesn't solve the "stealing of jobs" problem from outsourcing companies that are based in US, but have huge operations in India (HP, IBM, Accenture, EDS etc).

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#77

I keep on seeing this time and again on HN that "H-1B workers are cheap workers" (mostly with disdain, completely disregarding the fact that they might also be technically 'better'), but is there any data to support those claims? Because if that's the case, that clearly warrants a few lawsuits about wage discrimination in American companies.

https://stoph1bvisafraud.org/2015/05/30/2015-h1b-visa-rank-a... Google is your friend. Indian body shops pay far less and apply for far more visas.

It's not what I'm talking about though. These are Indian companies which mostly employ only Indian people, all of whom might be cheap from your standards. I was mainly talking about the American companies that are employing both Americans and Indian H-1Bs, and are allegedly paying less to the similarly qualified Indian workers than their American counter parts (because that's where an average US citizen seems to have a problem with 'cheap Indians' snatching their jobs). These Indian companies' (Infosys, TCS etc.) jobs were anyway not "American jobs" to begin with, so there's no chance of Indians snatching them.

I personally don't have a problem with equally qualified Indians getting paid less than the American counterparts as well, even if that might be the (illegal) case. In a free market, whoever provides best quality with the cheapest price wins anyway (and the employer gets to decide what 'quality' means to them), so I don't understand all the whining. Eventually, it's American companies that get benefited by these cheap workers, growing American economy. The local people, then would need to lower their rates to match the competition. That's what happens across the world.

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#78

Many on HN seem to dislike Infosys, but let's not let that cloud larger, far more important issues: Most importantly, it sets very dangerous precedents of U.S. federal government interference in the free market and in business decisions, and of economic nationalism worldwide: * Today you might like who the federal government is picking on and threatening; tomorrow you might not. Do we want politicians making decision…

"Free Trade" is similar to freedom of speech. While arbitrary checks are damaging, there have to be rules to inhibit the abuse. "Let the market run free and everything will be right" sounds good in theory, but that implies that we will be better off without anti-trust laws, and minimum wage rules. In that case, what would stop companies from colluding to fix prices? It's easy to derive another conclusion from your pr…

> "Let the market run free and everything will be right" sounds good in theory, but that implies that we will be better off without anti-trust laws, and minimum wage rules.

I agree; it should not be taken to an extreme and I didn't mean it in an ideological sense. But there is value to 'free' market competition; it's a useful tool and also provides freedom, in the sense of liberty, a core value of our society. Government intimidation of businesses is almost always a bad solution to the problems; law and regulation are democratic and much more just. Infosys isn't the first - remember the businesses whom Trump claims to have intimidated about their factory locations.

> It'll create market inefficiency, which will allow other promising companies to compete, which can potentially raise the quality of the end-result.

Fundamentally, that's not the result of inefficiency. It's called "inefficient" because it costs more for worse outcomes. It's a very predictable, well-tested outcome.

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#79
post #60

Many on HN seem to dislike Infosys, but let's not let that cloud larger, far more important issues: Most importantly, it sets very dangerous precedents of U.S. federal government interference in the free market and in business decisions, and of economic nationalism worldwide: * Today you might like who the federal government is picking on and threatening; tomorrow you might not. Do we want politicians making decision…

You're being downvoted, but I think you raise some some good points since a lot of people believe what you're saying. I think the main misconception is that there is a "free market". The US government, and most governments around the world, have been heavily interventionist since at least WWII. This was born of necessity - the Great Depression was largely the outcome of capitalism left unchecked. After WWII the U.S.…

I agree with much of what you say. Most entertaining to me is that I'm the one who used to post such things on HN. It's amazing how quickly the pendulum has swung from extreme libertarian to progressive left.

Personally, I think any ideology is dangerous. The "free market" should be a tool - good at some things, bad at others - and not an ideological dogma. I don't think it works well when enterprises cannot fail, a necessary part of the free market; so public safety, health care, basic utilities (e.g. water), etc. aren't good problems on which to apply the free market tool. It's also not useful for goods that shouldn't be distributed based on ability to pay, such as basic infrastructure (roads, phone, Internet), education, basic nutrition or health care.

But it is an excellent tool for many purposes, and has a moral basis - it provides for the liberty of the business owners to do what they want with their property. I didn't agree when it was a dogma, and I don't agree that it's unimportant. It's essential.

> Globalisation was just another means to promote economic interests. It was nothing to do with some free market ideal

I strongly disagree. Free trade is a fundamental of free market economics, in theory and reality. It's just interference in the free market, this time at an international border instead of inside it (consider: would it be different if it happened at U.S. state borders? Urban borders?). If I'm making cars and must pay more for worse steel, simply because the worse steel plant is in one location and the better one in another, that wastes economic resources: It wastes the car manufacturer's money, which could go to something more useful such as more jobs, better cars, or payments to shareholders; it wastes the car buyer's money, which could have purchased a better car (i.e., with better steel); it wastes much of the resources put into the inferior steel plant, which could go to more productive uses (look up comparative advantage); and it deprives a productive enterprise, the better steel plant, of resources that it fairly won on merit in the marketplace. The fact is that the better steel plant uses the money more efficiently, freeing up for better uses the extra money that would be consumed making bad steel and funding the people who built the better mousetrap. You probably want your mousetrap to succeed on its merits, not on whether the President happens to like you.

But there is a serious issue with the free market's (including free trade's) impact on labor. My way of looking at it is that capital can move much more quickly than labor: A factory can move much more quickly than its workers can (either to the new factory or to equivalent jobs). The economy is there to serve people, so that should be addressed.

> The US government, and most governments around the world, have been heavily interventionist since at least WWII. This was born of necessity - the Great Depression was largely the outcome of capitalism left unchecked. After WWII the U.S. economy was in tatters. Truman and Eisenhower both took very aggressive interventionist policies to keep the economy afloat.

While I agree with much of your point, parts of that history are time-shifted. The Great Depression began in 1929 and FDR took office in 1933. That's (roughly) when the heavy intervention began, and it took place until the end of WWII (1945) - though much of the intervention during WWII was for a different reason, to use the nation's economic resources for war materials. Post-WWII (though maybe not the next day) the U.S. economy was robust. The 1950s, including under Eisenhower, were possibly the greatest economic boom in U.S. history, and it continued until roughly the 1970s. Heavy regulation, intervention and taxes - though not at the scale of the Great Depression - which continued until the early 1980s, was not due to economic necessity, but possibly due to a belief in democratic government.

Re: Infosys plans to hire 10,000 American workers, open four U.S. tech centers

#80
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the cost of an American has > come down. Maybe Americans are willing > to work at the rates Indians have been > quietly working at. They haven't, and they're not.

I beg to differ. We are seeing a rebalancing. American's don't need to be paid their 100k a year to live a middle class life style if a Chinese and Indian worker is able to live a middle class life style cheaper.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN