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The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

iis.fraunhofer.de

51–60 of 291 posts

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#51

I'm curious about what advantages and benefits, if any, the patents brought to Fraunhofer. Other than making mp3 slightly more difficult to work with especially on Linux, did it benefit them in any way? Did them benefit society? Coming at this from an "this is a real-life example of software patents being {good|bad}".

The licensing money have probably helped the Fraunhofer Society do more research. Now whether that is the way you think research should be founded, and whether the net cost to society has been larger than the gain is another question.

For context, Fraunhofer Society is a massive public-benefit organisation aimed at applied research: while it gets some public funding, that public funding is given according to how much they make in industry contracts, which are the primary source of income. The idea behind this model is that they have room to do work that's not immediately profitable, but on the other hand have to keep applications in mind and work effectively to still get industry work.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#52

Recognizing this adds legitimacy to software patents. Don't. There have been free and open source MP3 decoders for many years now.

So you don't believe in software patents?

Regardless of one's position on whether software patents should or should not be a thing, until you can convince Congress otherwise, they are a thing.

Do not underestimate the importance of software patents. It is wise to build a defensive patent portfolio.

I know this is no fun for people who are ideologically opposed to software patents, but as in most competitions, if the ruleset allows this advantage and you refuse to exploit it, you will lose to someone else who is less squeamish. There is absolutely a real lowest-common denominator effect that applies here.

If you want your startup to be acquired, you need something that a potential acquirer can't easily circumvent; that means a brand with user loyalty or intellectual property. Anything else in the software realm, Google et al could easily replicate it within a reasonable timeframe by assigning a small team to do so.

An artillery of your own ambiguous or general patents can also prevent lawsuits from others.

These are the rules of the game today, and if we want to play the game, we need to use this rule to our advantage. If we hate the rule, we need to find an effective way to petition Congress to change it. This usually means demonstrating how the current law is a clear risk for the only stakeholders Congress cares about: massive companies (particularly, major employers within their constituencies).

A lot of stuff that should be legally risky for big companies isn't, because the legal system is so convoluted and expensive, that they know only another well-capitalized company could successfully pursue a suit under such grounds. Since the big companies are generally advantaged by not "poking the bear" and instead accepting one another in a type of stasis, they avoid filing potential landmark cases that would dispense the legal ambiguity and strip the advantage against upstarts away from both parties.

"Don't hate the player; hate the game".

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#53

I'm curious about what advantages and benefits, if any, the patents brought to Fraunhofer. Other than making mp3 slightly more difficult to work with especially on Linux, did it benefit them in any way? Did them benefit society? Coming at this from an "this is a real-life example of software patents being {good|bad}".

There's no real-life example of software patents being good.

I'm down on software patents too, but I'm not sure that's supportable without at least some sort of argument.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP3 is the worst performer of the lot, but is suddenly more attractive because it's free and AAC is decidedly not. If you don't need compatibility (like for bgm/sfx) it's still a worse choice than Vorbis or Opus because it compresses worse. For sfx and looping music in particular, mp3 is also a mess because there's no standard way to play back samples with zero delay and zero extra samples at the end.

I vaguely recall that Vorbis requires a fair bit more processing to decompress, enough to be a potential issue 15 years ago, but on modern computers it's barely detectable and doesn't effect performance at all.

The problem now is battery.

MP3 almost always has hardware decode which is really power efficient. This isn't as bad nowadays since audio decode isn't that intensive relative to keeping your WiFi on.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#57
post #44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For new products there isn't really any room for debate anymore, Opus is the clear winner.

Because...?

It's the best codec in every dimension. It's royalty free, has low encoding delay, and has clearly superior compression efficiency.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP3 is the worst performer of the lot, but is suddenly more attractive because it's free and AAC is decidedly not. If you don't need compatibility (like for bgm/sfx) it's still a worse choice than Vorbis or Opus because it compresses worse. For sfx and looping music in particular, mp3 is also a mess because there's no standard way to play back samples with zero delay and zero extra samples at the end.

Mp3 is also really accessible. Anyone who's ever worked with audio in an amateur capacity knows how to create an mp3. I don't think many people would know how to properly encode an Opus file. I did an informal survey on Quora a while back, and I was surprised to see that almost every audio industry professional had no idea what Opus even was. Mp3 is, for all intents and purposes, the animated gif of audio.

On the other hand, due to the encoder patent, most FOSS audio-editing tools ship without MP3-encoding support included.

My first instinct, on being asked to create an MP3 from a WAV + some effects, is to download Audacity, diddle around, and then export to MP3. But—and I always forget the first time I do it—you have to download an additional LAME plugin for Audacity to get that MP3-export to happen.

On the other hand, Opus is just right there in the Export menu; the codec is built into the app.

(On Macs, AAC is also "right there" in Audacity's export menu, due to OS-native Quicktime encoding support; but on other OSes AAC export requires similar fiddling to MP3 export.)

And, mind you, this isn't nearly as much of a concern on Linux, where usually the app package will have optional dependencies on the MP3/AAC encoder libraries, and so—if you have your "non-free" package repositories enabled—they'll get installed along with the software.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP3 is the worst performer of the lot, but is suddenly more attractive because it's free and AAC is decidedly not. If you don't need compatibility (like for bgm/sfx) it's still a worse choice than Vorbis or Opus because it compresses worse. For sfx and looping music in particular, mp3 is also a mess because there's no standard way to play back samples with zero delay and zero extra samples at the end.

Mp3 is also really accessible. Anyone who's ever worked with audio in an amateur capacity knows how to create an mp3. I don't think many people would know how to properly encode an Opus file. I did an informal survey on Quora a while back, and I was surprised to see that almost every audio industry professional had no idea what Opus even was. Mp3 is, for all intents and purposes, the animated gif of audio.

The patent situation really is like the animated gif but the technology involved puts it much closer to being the jpeg of audio.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#60

So is the FSF's campaign "Play Ogg!" [0] slowly becoming obsolete? [0] https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/playogg/en/

Roughly in the way the "Burn All GIFs" [1] campaign became obsolete: the patents expired, removing the original objection, but nonetheless alternative formats are now better anyway.

[1] http://burnallgifs.org/archives/

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