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The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

iis.fraunhofer.de

41–50 of 291 posts

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#41
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe in software patents?

Software patents historically have been awarded for incredibly vague, "could-apply-to-nearly-anything" systems. As a result, there have been a lot of abuses of software patents by companies, both big and small.

[deleted]

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe in software patents?

All software can be reduced to mathematical formulae, which cannot be patented, so no. There should be no such thing as a software patent.

I'm very sympathetic to the idea of disallowing software patents; to my layman's sensibilities, so many of them are ridiculous, or after the fact grants of something that has been done in practice for years, or predatory, or all that and more.

However, any physical machine or process can be reduced to the laws of physics, and you can't patent the laws of physics as far as I know. I don't think "reduced to mathematical formulae" is in itself a great argument.

Should the jacquard loom have been granted a patent?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom

https://www.google.com/patents/US578068

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#44
post #24
post #8

So, now that the "but MP3 is patent-encumbered" consideration is finally dead-ish, what's the new balance on the debate between shipping {MP3, MP4-AAC, MKV-Vorbis, MKV-Opus} as music/SFX assets in software products? Also, with the two sub-considerations: • on mobile, where hardware decoding exists for only some codecs; • on the web, where the audio APIs only accept some of these formats/codecs.

For new products there isn't really any room for debate anymore, Opus is the clear winner.

Because...?

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe in software patents?

All software can be reduced to mathematical formulae, which cannot be patented, so no. There should be no such thing as a software patent.

I mean, I'm very much opposed to over-broad software patents, but that's a fairly silly argument. Anything a human being produces can be reduced to mathematical formulae.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#46
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe in software patents?

Software is already covered by copyright. Granting it parent protection as well allows software companies to double dip in a way that no other industry can.

That's certainly not true. You can protect a manufacturing process via patent, and also protect a manual on the manufacturing process via copyright. Further, you can protect machinery within the manufacturing process via patent, and also protect a manual on the machinery via copyright.

This parallels software coverage. You can protect the process (the executed code resulting in affirmative steps) and the manual (the source code).

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EDIT: I must be flagged, because I can't post anymore. SO if you make a post that people disagree with, you get your posting privileges revoked?

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It's close enough. The main point is, patents have been accepted as a necessary part of the investment, development, and recoupment process. A patent, directed to machinery or software, with generalized language may implicitly cover thousands of different ways to perform a given process.

Look, I deal with IP day in, day out. I'm glad that it exists because I've made a career out of it. That said, I don't agree with the status quo when it comes to the patentability of computer implemented methods. Some stuff that comes across my table is clearly novel. Some stuff was issued in the late 1990s and appears to be painfully broad and woefully invalid.

Software copyright infringement is a red herring, unless you are dealing with piracy, theft, etc.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#47
post #8

So, now that the "but MP3 is patent-encumbered" consideration is finally dead-ish, what's the new balance on the debate between shipping {MP3, MP4-AAC, MKV-Vorbis, MKV-Opus} as music/SFX assets in software products? Also, with the two sub-considerations: • on mobile, where hardware decoding exists for only some codecs; • on the web, where the audio APIs only accept some of these formats/codecs.

MP3 is the worst performer of the lot, but is suddenly more attractive because it's free and AAC is decidedly not. If you don't need compatibility (like for bgm/sfx) it's still a worse choice than Vorbis or Opus because it compresses worse. For sfx and looping music in particular, mp3 is also a mess because there's no standard way to play back samples with zero delay and zero extra samples at the end.

Mp3 is also really accessible. Anyone who's ever worked with audio in an amateur capacity knows how to create an mp3. I don't think many people would know how to properly encode an Opus file. I did an informal survey on Quora a while back, and I was surprised to see that almost every audio industry professional had no idea what Opus even was.

Mp3 is, for all intents and purposes, the animated gif of audio.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#48

Recognizing this adds legitimacy to software patents. Don't. There have been free and open source MP3 decoders for many years now.

So you don't believe in software patents?

You should surely reject them as an acceptable practice, but it doesn't mean they can't present a legal problem. Some also say even if they reject them, they can still use them defensively.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#49
post #8

So, now that the "but MP3 is patent-encumbered" consideration is finally dead-ish, what's the new balance on the debate between shipping {MP3, MP4-AAC, MKV-Vorbis, MKV-Opus} as music/SFX assets in software products? Also, with the two sub-considerations: • on mobile, where hardware decoding exists for only some codecs; • on the web, where the audio APIs only accept some of these formats/codecs.

MP3 is the worst performer of the lot, but is suddenly more attractive because it's free and AAC is decidedly not. If you don't need compatibility (like for bgm/sfx) it's still a worse choice than Vorbis or Opus because it compresses worse. For sfx and looping music in particular, mp3 is also a mess because there's no standard way to play back samples with zero delay and zero extra samples at the end.

I vaguely recall that Vorbis requires a fair bit more processing to decompress, enough to be a potential issue 15 years ago, but on modern computers it's barely detectable and doesn't effect performance at all.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#50
post #40
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software patents are bullshit. A patent on an invention that many people would easily develop independently of one another should not, it is argued, be granted since this impedes development. [1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent#Obviousness

There's nothing unique about software that makes it more likely to be developed independently by many inventors, the same happens often with hardware patents. And the same argument applies - the patent system as a whole impedes progress as much (or more?) than it advances it.

I think the landscape for software patents is worse. For actual physical goods I've seen many example where the patent system does what it intends but I haven't really seen a similar benefit in software. Maybe there is one and I'm just not exposed to it, though.
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