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The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

iis.fraunhofer.de

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Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#21

Post by TD-Linux »

derefr wrote: post #8

So, now that the "but MP3 is patent-encumbered" consideration is finally dead-ish, what's the new balance on the debate between shipping {MP3, MP4-AAC, MKV-Vorbis, MKV-Opus} as music/SFX assets in software products? Also, with the two sub-considerations: • on mobile, where hardware decoding exists for only some codecs; • on the web, where the audio APIs only accept some of these formats/codecs.

MP3 is the worst performer of the lot, but is suddenly more attractive because it's free and AAC is decidedly not. If you don't need compatibility (like for bgm/sfx) it's still a worse choice than Vorbis or Opus because it compresses worse. For sfx and looping music in particular, mp3 is also a mess because there's no standard way to play back samples with zero delay and zero extra samples at the end.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#22

Post by vetinari »

poizan42 wrote: post #10
vetinari wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need licensing for mp3 decoding anymore. All the patents have expired. Even Fedora ships mp3 decoder now. There are still patents left for mp3 encoding though.

The last known decoding patent expired in 2015. That last known patent covering mp3 at all expired two weeks ago. Edit: apparently there are two patents left in relations to encoder optimizations[0] not mentioned on the wikipedia pages. Those are probably irrelevant to modern encoders on modern computers. [0]: https://madfileformatscience.garymcgath.com/2016/0/05/mp3pat...

Fedora wiki says:

> However, as of 2016-11-10, Fedora is now able to include MP3 decoding functionality. MP3 encoding functionality is still not permissible, because it requires patented technologies and the patent holder has not provided licenses that are compatible with Fedora's requirements.

So it looks like there are some patents relevant to modern encoders.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#23

Post by zakk »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #12
notaplumber wrote: post #11

Recognizing this adds legitimacy to software patents. Don't. There have been free and open source MP3 decoders for many years now.

So you don't believe in software patents?

A bit like not believing in the law, something you can scream while they drag you to prison.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#24

Post by magila »

derefr wrote: post #8

So, now that the "but MP3 is patent-encumbered" consideration is finally dead-ish, what's the new balance on the debate between shipping {MP3, MP4-AAC, MKV-Vorbis, MKV-Opus} as music/SFX assets in software products? Also, with the two sub-considerations: • on mobile, where hardware decoding exists for only some codecs; • on the web, where the audio APIs only accept some of these formats/codecs.

For new products there isn't really any room for debate anymore, Opus is the clear winner.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#25

Post by poizan42 »

ggambetta wrote: post #13

I'm curious about what advantages and benefits, if any, the patents brought to Fraunhofer. Other than making mp3 slightly more difficult to work with especially on Linux, did it benefit them in any way? Did them benefit society? Coming at this from an "this is a real-life example of software patents being {good|bad}".

The licensing money have probably helped the Fraunhofer Society do more research. Now whether that is the way you think research should be founded, and whether the net cost to society has been larger than the gain is another question.

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#26

Post by deathanatos »

derefr wrote: post #8

So, now that the "but MP3 is patent-encumbered" consideration is finally dead-ish, what's the new balance on the debate between shipping {MP3, MP4-AAC, MKV-Vorbis, MKV-Opus} as music/SFX assets in software products? Also, with the two sub-considerations: • on mobile, where hardware decoding exists for only some codecs; • on the web, where the audio APIs only accept some of these formats/codecs.

I thought the "balance" was and continues to be that Vorbis delivers at least as good a quality as AAC at equivalent bitrates, if not better, better quality than MP3 at equivalent bitrates, and is FOSS which way tips the scale in its favor. I haven't seen and continue to not see any reason to MP3/MP4 in the manner you describe.

(And if Vorbis isn't on par w/ MP4, my impression is that it is certainly good enough at decent bitrates that it wouldn't matter.)

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#27

Post by [deleted] »

tombert wrote: post #14
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't believe in software patents?

Software patents historically have been awarded for incredibly vague, "could-apply-to-nearly-anything" systems. As a result, there have been a lot of abuses of software patents by companies, both big and small.

[deleted]

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#29

Post by poizan42 »

vetinari wrote: post #22
poizan42 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last known decoding patent expired in 2015. That last known patent covering mp3 at all expired two weeks ago. Edit: apparently there are two patents left in relations to encoder optimizations[0] not mentioned on the wikipedia pages. Those are probably irrelevant to modern encoders on modern computers. [0]: https://madfileformatscience.garymcgath.com/2016/0/05/mp3pat...

Fedora wiki says: > However, as of 2016-11-10, Fedora is now able to include MP3 decoding functionality. MP3 encoding functionality is still not permissible, because it requires patented technologies and the patent holder has not provided licenses that are compatible with Fedora's requirements. So it looks like there are some patents relevant to modern encoders.

It probably hasn't been updated within the last two weeks...

Edit: The wiki page[0] links to the Fraunhofer page[1] saying that the licensing program has been terminated...

[0]: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/MP3

[1]: http://www.mp3licensing.com/ which redirects to https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/prod/audiocodec/audi...

Re: The licensing program for MP3-related patents has been terminated

#30

Post by davidgerard »

Gaelan wrote: post #18
TD-Linux wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It made them a lot of money.

Were they involved in the creation of MP3?

Karlheinz Brandenburg at Fraunhofer invented MP3. (And AAC.)

(edit: not Stockhausen, thank you!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlheinz_Brandenburg

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