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Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

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Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who worked there, what is your take on these fake review stories? I've read the same or highly similar accounts from other small businesses over years. Did you do this when you worked there? Did your colleagues?

To be blunt, they're total bullshit. Which is why you never see any evidence , outside of vague hearsay from someone's uncle. Yelp has a small army of people cold-calling every business in the country to sell ads. Simultaneously and independently, they have a system that filters out bad reviews, all day, every day. Just by chance, someone is going to get called soon after reviews have been filtered. This leads, inevi…

It could be a small part of those people who are doing this in order to have a bigger bonus. Bad incentive structures that cause bad behaviours is not an unknown phenomenon.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#72
post #48

I would like very much to grab my pitchfork and point it menacingly at Yelp, but I have yet to see one of these stories with hard evidence. There are many, many stories of bad (and incriminating) behavior on behalf of Yelp salespeople over the phone, but I have never heard a recording. Even though most claims indicate that the harassing calls are repeated many times. Somebody record one of these calls and become Inte…

Your standard of proof is very high. Who records all of their phone calls (presumably without consent which is illegal in my jurisdiction) and makes an archive of their yelp page periodically? This is not the only company to face such allegations and afaik it's not the first time yelp has been accused either. I think you'll have to base this one on anecdotal stories.

What people accuse Yelp of doing is pretty close to racketeering (or is? IANAL) and thus there is a high burden of proof. As a sibling comment points out, not every accusation needs detailed proof but some do and despite the years of accusations there isn't any definitive proof.

Also, look at the information you've seen about bad practices at Uber recently. I'm aware my next statement is pretty weak reasoning, but if Uber with all its money and talent has these problems out in the open what makes you think Yelp would be that much better at keeping this a secret?

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#73

I would like very much to grab my pitchfork and point it menacingly at Yelp, but I have yet to see one of these stories with hard evidence. There are many, many stories of bad (and incriminating) behavior on behalf of Yelp salespeople over the phone, but I have never heard a recording. Even though most claims indicate that the harassing calls are repeated many times. Somebody record one of these calls and become Inte…

One thing that Yelp absolutely does do, I've seen it with my own eyes, is play with 'recommended' reviews based on whether the business in question is paying them. I can't provide hard links because it's a client of my wife's business.

Specifically, a business had about 20 very positive reviews in total, all of them 'recommended'. A review that isn't 'recommended' basically doesn't exist; it doesn't count toward the average rating and it can only be viewed if a small print, difficult to see link at the bottom is clicked.

So, a business started with 20 total rating, and all 20 of them 'recommended', with a very good average rating.

Said business decides to send some money Yelp's way; that goes on for a few months, and they get a minimal uptick in hits, but worth less than what's being sent to Yelp.

So they (within the contract with Yelp) stop that relationship.

Shortly after, 75% of the reviews switch to 'not recommended'; the ones that remain are among the lowest ratings. The new average for the business isn't terrible, but it's lower.

Multiple calls to Yelp are all handled basically the same; "That's just an algorithm and we don't really control it." ... "I think if you re-establish your contract with us, you might get more business."

The language on the phone is tricky; nowhere is a direct connection between sending money and 'fixing' the Yelp score mentioned. But it's heavily implied. When asked directly, they just deflect talking about the opaque 'algorithm.'

That was the most recent case my wife dealt with. There have been at least two other fairly similar situations.

At this point, she's telling her clients that it can be dangerous to engage with Yelp if they haven't already done so.

TL;DR: Yelp is shady as hell. Full stop.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#74

I would like very much to grab my pitchfork and point it menacingly at Yelp, but I have yet to see one of these stories with hard evidence. There are many, many stories of bad (and incriminating) behavior on behalf of Yelp salespeople over the phone, but I have never heard a recording. Even though most claims indicate that the harassing calls are repeated many times. Somebody record one of these calls and become Inte…

Here's what I said (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12849689#12850055) the last time this was brought up:

> That said, it would be nice if someone presented some evidence to back up claims that yelp is doing something "corrupt".

This is an extremely difficult standard to meet. A lot of the accusations against Yelp involve phone calls with their sales reps, which is not public data that can be aggregated and parsed. All we really have to go on are anecdotes.

Speaking personally, I've heard from two people I know who have small businesses- a wedding photographer in Seattle and a small restaurant in Concord, New Hampshire- who separately told me how they had good Yelp reviews, and then watched them get pushed down and bad reviews pushed to the top shortly after they declined to buy Yelp ads. These two people didn't even know each their and would have no way or reason to coordinate their tales, and they told me identical stories. I never use Yelp anymore, for this reason.

Anecdotes might not be scientific data, but if the circumstances are such that scientific data is impossible to obtain, they're better than nothing.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#75
My small business occaisionally gets calls from them and they are very very rude and high pressure. I remember hanging up on one guy and they kept calling back probably 3-4 times per hour. Even after literally telling the guy to "fuck off". I will never pay for anything on their site or even use it. Foursquare does a much better job at what they do now anyway.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#76
I and my wife left two negative reviews for our realtor on Yelp. The realtor botched the sale of our house in Half Moon Bay, she harassed and lied to us, and we even filed a complaint against her with the San Mateo realtors board.

Because she advertises on Yelp, our reviews were shelved into "not recommended" category. The realtor still has 5 star rating. Never mind that I had submitted more that 30 reviews to Yelp before, so I consider myself a good Yelper.

I went so far as to write a letter to Stoppelman, CEO. No response, no action.

PS The same reviews were published on Zillow no problem.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such garbage. Yelp might be the worst company on the planet, but "anonymous internet poster who has a friend who worked there two months and claims something unspecified-but-fishy is going on" is completely worthless. "A friend of mine said he'd be threatened with legal action if he revealed what HappyTypist does on Saturday nights."

What I learned from all those stories about Yelp: If there's smoke there must be a fire. Lot's of smoke recently.

You didn't learn that, you decided that. Unless you've seen the fire and can point us to it?

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#78
all the advice to hang up yelp or not answer is only serving to punt the problem to someone else and wait for them to punt back to you. nothing is fixed.

you need to engage yelp salesmen. you need to break them psychologically. you need to convince them to do what needs to be done. they know what that is. you can help them.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#79

Via a bit of sleuthing, I managed to figure out what business this person is writing about. I could post a link to the Yelp page, but that feels a bit doxxy, so I don't know if it's appropriate. The business does have more one-star reviews than one might normally expect, but the texts of the accompanying reviews contain specific details of complaints, and the complaints are appropriate for the ISP/TV category. For ex…

The issue isn't that they're fake but that positive reviews end up hidden as 'not recommended' and negative ones suddenly float to the top once the protection money stops. It looks like there's manipulation of the algorithm that determines what reviews are legitimate on a per client basis. The 'free' package is pretty unforgiving, but if you pay then its tweaked more towards your favor. Nothing about this would be il…

In this case, of the three "not recommended" reviews, one is positive (four stars) and two are negative (one star). This seems contrary to the common assertion that the bad reviews are all unleashed. Though I concede that if Yelp is guilty of the accusations, they might be smart about it, and leave some negative reviews hidden.

I'm just concerned that there is still no ready evidence that Yelp is doing this deliberately. I have seen no confirmed cases of hidden negative reviews suddenly being displayed after a contract is canceled, nor of previously displayed positive reviews becoming hidden, nor any compelling evidence that the negative reviews are disingenuous, nor any recorded communication from Yelp implying that paying up will improve reviews. I like assertions to be accompanied by appropriate evidence.

Consider: Most business owners pour their hearts and their lives into their businesses. But no business is perfect, and they will make mistakes that upset customers. Yelp encourages criticism. It sucks to have your life's work harshly criticized. So it's miles easier for business owners to accept that the negative reviews are fraudulent.

Re: Business cancels Yelp advertising contract, negative reviews start pouring in

#80
There is something about Yelp that makes people want to give inflammatory reviews.

Once upon a time, I got a fake 1-star review. I knew it was fake because I know who my clients are -- past and present. A few days later, a client who had recently cancelled our contract posted a "real" 1-star review. It was embellished to the point of being a fabrication. Luckily it eventually went away, but it was a bad experience. That fake review from someone who wasn't a client turned into a /real/ review from someone who was!

With this information, I've taken a more critical eye to Yelp reviews and noticed most if not all of the reviews are useless.

They also spam up search listings for "restaurants in my area" with useless results.

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