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Send and receive money with Gmail

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Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#61

Post by petejansson »

erichurkman wrote: post #55
gcr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem is that ACH transfers are inherently quite insecure and the banks don't want to be held liable for fraud. It's in the bank's best interest to make transfers difficult and to check the source and destination identities pretty thoroughly. Sarah Jeong wrote about her experience with ACH fraud here, where her bank account was emptied when someone found her account and routing numbers: https://motherboard.vice…

This is why I use separate accounts for different things. Bill pay is a separate account. Direct deposit is a separate account. I have an account I _only_ use for writing paper checks (rare these days). It's a pain in the ass, but a long time ago an employer errantly clawed back a full month of payroll direct deposits from me instead of another employee. The bank couldn't/wouldn't help, and the company's payroll was…

How do you move money among the accounts? I like the idea of using multiple bank accounts as financial firewalls for my money, but it seems difficult or expensive to move the funds, especially if the accounts are not all at the same institution.

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#62

Post by ilanco »

theptip wrote: post #45

As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting p…

Is PayPal being subjected to those laws? After all they are not a bank.

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#63

Post by nimchimpsky »

paul7986 wrote: post #26
Entangled wrote: post #18

I love this idea, it can be even bigger than Paypal. Three suggestions: First, make it a mobile app as a simplified gmail with just the recipient, the amount and a memo. That's it. In version two add the pic, avatar or whatever people use. Second, open a new wave of email accounts since all gmail accounts are already taken so people can start using their names or businesses as email accounts again. Perhaps GoMail? An…

Sure it can get just a big as Google Buzz or Plus.

or even wave

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#64

Post by fragmede »

ilanco wrote: post #62
theptip wrote: post #45

As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting p…

Is PayPal being subjected to those laws? After all they are not a bank.

Only in the US. In the EU, they're registered as a Luxembourg-based bank.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayP...

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#65

Post by curryhowardiso »

theptip wrote: post #45

As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting p…

Is the problem that the "stanford disruptors" are sticking to offering value as a payments facilitator/money transmitter and not trying to move up the value chain and get some banking licences? I assume this would be orders of magnitude more difficult but I really want to see it happen somewhere in the world!

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#66

Post by erichurkman »

petejansson wrote: post #61
erichurkman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I use separate accounts for different things. Bill pay is a separate account. Direct deposit is a separate account. I have an account I _only_ use for writing paper checks (rare these days). It's a pain in the ass, but a long time ago an employer errantly clawed back a full month of payroll direct deposits from me instead of another employee. The bank couldn't/wouldn't help, and the company's payroll was…

How do you move money among the accounts? I like the idea of using multiple bank accounts as financial firewalls for my money, but it seems difficult or expensive to move the funds, especially if the accounts are not all at the same institution.

ACH transfers (aka bill pay in some banks), most regular payments out of account X also have a corresponding transfer ~5 days prior from a main cash account to account X.

It's not flawless, but it is insulation against ACH fraud, both electronic and forged checks/e-checks (I've been hit by both before).

It also makes it nearly impossible to use most budgeting softwares out there, aside from battle-tested Excel.

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#67

Post by theptip »

ilanco wrote: post #62
theptip wrote: post #45

As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting p…

Is PayPal being subjected to those laws? After all they are not a bank.

Yes. They are not a bank, but they are a Money Services Business (in the USA). E.g. see http://paymentsviews.com/2012/08/13/so-you-want-to-start-a-p...

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#68

Post by theptip »

curryhowardiso wrote: post #65
theptip wrote: post #45

As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting p…

Is the problem that the "stanford disruptors" are sticking to offering value as a payments facilitator/money transmitter and not trying to move up the value chain and get some banking licences? I assume this would be orders of magnitude more difficult but I really want to see it happen somewhere in the world!

Even the money transmitter play is harder than you'd think (all of what I wrote above is applicable to that class; being a bank is even harder). Since Paypal failed to convince the regulators that they were not an MSB, they are much less likely to let a small fry under the radar.

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#69

Post by curryhowardiso »

theptip wrote: post #68
curryhowardiso wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the problem that the "stanford disruptors" are sticking to offering value as a payments facilitator/money transmitter and not trying to move up the value chain and get some banking licences? I assume this would be orders of magnitude more difficult but I really want to see it happen somewhere in the world!

Even the money transmitter play is harder than you'd think (all of what I wrote above is applicable to that class; being a bank is even harder). Since Paypal failed to convince the regulators that they were not an MSB, they are much less likely to let a small fry under the radar.

Cards on the table: I work for a money transmitter "app" headquartered in SF (I say "app" because we still operate in a somewhat speculative niche in the industry) as a software engineer - but I have a degree in law as well. To me the regulatory compliance seems to be an issue with the tech people not properly collaborating with the "banking proper" types (financial services/legal/banking professionals) Note: in "easy" jurisdictions we are seeing some progress[0]

Would you be able to take this offline and discuss with me further? I do not know the protocol for off site discussions from hacker news. Do I give you my public key? haha LOL

[0] www.monzo.com (with whom I haveno affiliation whatsoever)

Re: Send and receive money with Gmail

#70

Post by theptip »

gcr wrote: post #52
XaspR8d wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many banks seem to put up arbitrary hurdles to performing ACH transfers, or obscure the fact that they are available. Certainly I've had this issue with Wells Fargo, US Bank, and BoA. I assume this is because a number of them use "free, easy transfers between our customers" as a selling point, which would vanish quickly if it were easy to do between anybody. Sometimes it seems like we're even sliding ba…

One problem is that ACH transfers are inherently quite insecure and the banks don't want to be held liable for fraud. It's in the bank's best interest to make transfers difficult and to check the source and destination identities pretty thoroughly. Sarah Jeong wrote about her experience with ACH fraud here, where her bank account was emptied when someone found her account and routing numbers: https://motherboard.vice…

I wonder whether the issue is that consumer protection laws are not strong enough in the US banking system. In the UK, the Direct Debit regulations make it very easy to dispute/reverse charges, so there is little risk to giving your details to companies.
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