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China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

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Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#101

Post by tremendo »

spc476 wrote: post #67
bane wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> walked into a P.F. Chang's, and had General Tso's Chicken To be a touch contrarian, I'd even argue that the kind of food served in some of the newer chain restaurants isn't even proper traditional American-Chinese food (which seems to have shown up sometime in the late 19th, early 20th century). One of the things I've come to appreciate after lots of travel and lots of -Chinese food is how well developed and embedd…

You can find an American-Chinese restaurant everywhere, but I was very surprised to find a Chinese-Mexican restaurant in Florida (Indiantown, Florida to be precise): https://www.google.com/maps/@27.024428,-80.4724516,3a,75y,21... Haven't eaten there, but have passed the place plenty of times (girlfriend's Mom used to live in Indiantown).

> …but I was very surprised to find a Chinese-Mexican restaurant in Florida…

Here in AZ there's Chino Bandido that attempts this fusion, and many seem to like it. Personally I, a mexican, was not particularly impressed. On the other hand I thoroughly enjoy the Jap-Mex Sushirrito. Then again the whole of Mexican food here in the US is at least somewhat americanized too.

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#102

Post by ska »

ajross wrote: post #96
alkonaut wrote: post #70

This is exactly the same with Italian food: even though the US is full of people of Italian descent, that doesn't change the fact that the Olive Garden menu baffles Italians. Italian-American is a different kitchen. Just like British-Indian food. Or Tex-Mex. Sometimes these adaptations are pretty good (the British Indian food, which is what everyone outside india thinks of as "Indian food" is pretty good!) but for so…

> This is exactly the same with Italian food This is exactly the same with all food, everywhere. Cultures appropriate and modify stuff they get from other cultures, continually. Americans did it with Chinese, sure. And also Italian as you point out. And Mexican. And Japanese (the modern conception of "fancy maki rolls" is mostly an American export). And the Italians did it too! And the Mexicans! And the Chinese! The…

Authenticity itself is a problematic concept.

There is another confounding variable, especially but not exclusively in the US, which is the industrialization of food production. In some ways quality is thus traded off against convenience and cost, but it has nothing to do with the specific origins of the dishes and techniques.

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#103

Post by sidegrid »

m_mueller wrote: post #83
sooheon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure rife is important, but you're way over correcting. Fish is just there to round off the rice? Please.

I stand by my comment. Any trained Sushi chef knows how to cut the fish properly, all they need is access to a good wholesale fish market like Tsukiji or one of its resellers to offer you some very nice fish - but the way they treat the rice is where you see the biggest difference between a trained sushi chef and a master. No matter where you go in Japan it's still way beyond what you'd get in expensive places abroad…

How long can it take to learn how to cook rice? Couple of hours?

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#104

Post by jmiserez »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #99
wonnage wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We eat meat too, primarily pork. FWIW, the PF Chang's menu has a couple of dishes reminiscent of actual Chinese food, even if the execution is slightly different - salt & pepper prawns, pepper steak, fried chicken wings, pretty much all of the soups... The problem is that "Chinese food" as a category is really an enormous oversimplification, and even in China you can go to a place and be disappointed ordering somethi…

That's a common theme about regional flavors: they need to be adapted to local tastes. Just ask autochthonous Italians eating abroad - every single Italian restaurant serve plates that are too greasy, too flavored, too spicy or whatever. And you can't get a good cup of coffee almost anywhere around the world, because outside of Italy the burnt flavor is often praised as a brew having 'character'. But that's fine, bec…

The trouble is that if you actually traveled to some of these places and really liked the food, most of the "adapted" stuff just tastes bland. Some adjustments due to availability of ingredients I can live with, but most of the time the adapted version is just a slightly worse version of the original.

In part, this is also a problem of not having enough names for things. I guess there would be much less arguments over pizza if the Italian and American versions just had completely different names.

In the end, if I order an "Italian" pizza I actually do expect it to be made according to the One Italian Way, and would be disappointed if it's not.

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#105

Post by lhorie »

nostrademons wrote: post #27

My dad's a Chinese immigrant, and I've been to China and had Chinese food there. There are two types of Chinese food you can get in America (well, more given all the regional variations, but I'm making a point...). If you went to a strip mall, walked into a P.F. Chang's, and had General Tso's Chicken, that's not Chinese food. But if you walked into an unmarked doorway in Chinatown, walked down a flight of stairs to a…

I live in an area in Toronto that is very chinese (chinese supermarkets, chinese mall, even chinese doctor offices - you can pretty much live normally here without speaking a word of english) and my impression of restaurants in the area has been that rather than it being a dichotomy in terms of "american" vs "chinese" chinese food, the dichotomy is that chinese cuisine is extremely diverse compared to north american fare. You can go to a west chinese restaurant and get food that looks like afghan food, or go to a northern china place and get a mind-bogglingly spicy fish stew. There's dim sum, hong kong style cafeterias, szechuan, shanghai-style, and the list goes on and on and on. And a lot of it is quite accessible food without organs or chicken feet.

My wife tells that me that in china, you get diversity even in north american chains: pizza hut there is apparently considered "fancy food" and you can get all sorts of interesting things from KFC or mcdonalds.

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#106

Post by kod »

sidegrid wrote: post #103
m_mueller wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand by my comment. Any trained Sushi chef knows how to cut the fish properly, all they need is access to a good wholesale fish market like Tsukiji or one of its resellers to offer you some very nice fish - but the way they treat the rice is where you see the biggest difference between a trained sushi chef and a master. No matter where you go in Japan it's still way beyond what you'd get in expensive places abroad…

How long can it take to learn how to cook rice? Couple of hours?

How long can it take to learn how to make a list of things for a computer to do? Couple of days?

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#107

Post by seanmcdirmid »

wonnage wrote: post #71
nostrademons wrote: post #27

My dad's a Chinese immigrant, and I've been to China and had Chinese food there. There are two types of Chinese food you can get in America (well, more given all the regional variations, but I'm making a point...). If you went to a strip mall, walked into a P.F. Chang's, and had General Tso's Chicken, that's not Chinese food. But if you walked into an unmarked doorway in Chinatown, walked down a flight of stairs to a…

We eat meat too, primarily pork. FWIW, the PF Chang's menu has a couple of dishes reminiscent of actual Chinese food, even if the execution is slightly different - salt & pepper prawns, pepper steak, fried chicken wings, pretty much all of the soups... The problem is that "Chinese food" as a category is really an enormous oversimplification, and even in China you can go to a place and be disappointed ordering somethi…

Kung Pao chicken in Beijing is the perennial sichuan dish that you can barely find in chengdu (and even then, it's just for the eastern tourists).

Most of the authentic Chinese resteraunts in the San Gabriel Valley are not in basements, but in strip malls. Heck, these days china town isn't the best place for Chinese food in most cities (seattle, San Francisco, Beijing, Vancouver), rather some suburb they has a large rich Chinese population is. Most of the authentic food you get in American china towns are very old school Cantonese, while Chinese food is much more diverse than that.

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#108

Post by [deleted] »

wonnage wrote: post #71
nostrademons wrote: post #27

My dad's a Chinese immigrant, and I've been to China and had Chinese food there. There are two types of Chinese food you can get in America (well, more given all the regional variations, but I'm making a point...). If you went to a strip mall, walked into a P.F. Chang's, and had General Tso's Chicken, that's not Chinese food. But if you walked into an unmarked doorway in Chinatown, walked down a flight of stairs to a…

We eat meat too, primarily pork. FWIW, the PF Chang's menu has a couple of dishes reminiscent of actual Chinese food, even if the execution is slightly different - salt & pepper prawns, pepper steak, fried chicken wings, pretty much all of the soups... The problem is that "Chinese food" as a category is really an enormous oversimplification, and even in China you can go to a place and be disappointed ordering somethi…

[deleted]

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#109

Post by jeblair »

peferron wrote: post #77
zhemao wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, though. California, and the Bay Area specifically, is one of the best places in the US to find authentic Chinese food. OP's spouse is just a snob. Sure, a lot of restaurants feel the need to put some "standard" dishes like General Tso's Chicken on the menu, just in case. You don't have to order those. Outside of tourist traps like SF Chinatown, Chinese restaurants mainly serve Chinese food to a predominant…

Sichuan cuisine in the Bay Area is atrocious compared to the real deal. Maybe Cantonese or Hunan fare better but unfortunately I don't like these cuisines nearly as much. BTW, I'm neither American nor Chinese, so I don't have any national pride involved either way. I just happen to have spent multiple years in both countries.

China Lounge in Pleasanton is every bit as good as a restaurant in Chengdu (which is where the chef previously cooked).

Re: China Doesn't Understand the Concept of American Chinese Food (2014)

#110

Post by Endy »

tuna-piano wrote: post #44

In the reverse, this is what I got when I ordered a burger at a basketball game in China. I think of this burger when I try and empathize with how other cultures feel when America adapts their cuisine: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5dDMxJP_n1aVWFmby0ydlJfbW8... Also, here's a video of Chinese people trying Panda Express (American Chinese fast food) for the first time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo59LlkTDe4

Darn you for sending me down that YouTube hole.
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