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Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

insidehighered.com

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Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#161

Post by IIIIIIIIIIII »

erikb wrote: post #55
germanier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which university was this? Because in mine (HU) foreigners weren't treated any different.

Edit: After responding to some other comments I have to rewrite this. True, if you never heard anything about corruption in your university it may percentagewise be much better than mine. My reaction towards HU (assuming Berlin, no idea if there are other HUs out there) however is stiff, since I also know about some corruption there. It's not the same level though and a totally different department. ---- old comment…

> I don't want to mention the name of the university.

Preposterous, given that you have total anonymity and anyone reading your extremely general rant without any details would have any idea who you are. I was willing to accept your comment as an opinion based on your personal experiences, but after this turn in the discussion I can't take you seriously, because it's obvious that you are creating a lot of drama that doesn't actually exist. Posting the name of the university is a non-issue - unless you fear people who are actually there might dispute your claims... given the very general and broad claims you made you must be incredibly well-connected to a lot of people in a lot of different departments at that university. Not easy to believe even without your refusal to give a simple name to the place.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#162

Post by ar0 »

behrendtio wrote: post #154
MarkMc wrote: post #65

> starting in fall 2017, the southwestern state of Baden-Württemberg will start charging non-E.U. students 1,500 euros ($1,634) per semester That's still incredibly cheap for a quality university degree.

It's cheap but not quality.

> It's cheap but not quality.

Do you care to elaborate on that? If I look at the Times Higher Education ranking for Teaching, I see e.g. Heidelberg University on world rank 43:

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...

(Just picked because it's the first university in Baden-Württemberg I found; obviously, for specific subjects the rankings might vary a bit.)

That's not MIT or Harvard, but if that's your standard of "quality" than very few people in the world will have "quality" education.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#163

Post by anon_7523 »

discordianfish wrote: post #141
anon_7523 wrote: post #91

My personal experience says, that it is not working out. I cannot tell for the whole country, but I do have some insights, since I am hiring and interviewing students and studied in one of the universities mentioned elsewhere in the thread. There is an English speaking Master program, consisting almost entirely of Pakistani and Indian students. Some facts about them: - They are not required to learn German, so they s…

This comment is so German on so many levels. The reason those people aim for jobs in the UK or US is because there aren't good tech jobs in Germany. Arguing for mandatory German classes to 'lock in' talent somehow is simiarly uninspired as tech companies here. What about creating jobs that good people are willing to work at?

There are good tech jobs in Germany. They are not SV-level paying, but rents are also not San Francisco level and you get healthcare, pension funds and unemployment benefits. Of course it can always be better.

What better than German tech jobs are there in the UK? It is not about the jobs. They are aiming for a language they already know, but want to get a free education on the way.

My point is, that taxpayers should benefit from their investments. There is nothing wrong with creating a lock-in, which is silly btw.: There is a German speaking market of > 100 Mio speakers, you can benefit from. Nobody in the Philippines or India speaks German. See what kind of job opportunities Turkish-German people have in Turkey.

If your point is true and there are no tech-jobs, we can benefit from it, then stop the program and work on that first. The foreign students also would, because except for 3 neighborhoods in Berlin and Frankfurt, you cannot integrate into German society without some German language knowledge and without a proper skillset.

The German economy is heavily based on the Mittelstand with so called "hidden champions", one does not know about, but who are the global market leader in smaller, obscure markets. They often sit in a village somewhere in rural (but rich) Southern Germany. No way, you can make it there without German language knowledge.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#164

Post by taway_1212 »

cagataygurturk wrote: post #152
paganel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you must first learn German, Maybe because of this? > be able to borrow EUR 9,000 to apply for the student visa Also, this. 9,000 euros does not seem like too much for people from first-world countries, but for people coming from relatively speaking much poorer countries that sum is quite high.

Why learning German is a big issue? These are young people who can learn a language easily and in the beginning nobody expects you so high proficiency and people will always help and encourage you to learn the language. In Europe many educated folks know min 2 languages more and very open to learn more, you just need to leave your comfort zone. Learning languages also develops intellectually.

There was a guy from Brasil in my first year CS studies (in Poland). His Polish was passable I guess, but it was just no match during say intense Linear Algebra lecture, where Polish native speakers were barely keeping up (because the subject itself was enough and required tons of concentration). Sure enough, he dropped out after the first semester.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#165

Post by user5994461 »

josh_fyi wrote: post #145
alpha_squared wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes absolute sense to go $250k in debt for an MIT or Harvard degree No it doesn't? I think we should stop putting schools on a pedestal because of their name. I admire some of the research and work that comes out of those schools, but in the end their degrees are no better or worse than other schools' (regarding undergraduate, I can't speak for graduate). The only differences come down to network and academic…

> The only differences come down to network and academic history. Yes, indeed. With a degree from a top university, you are almost guaranteed an A average and can go straight to Wall Street or into other potentially super-lucrative professions. Not every wants that, and there are other paths to get there, but if that's what you want, this is by far the easiest way. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21615616…

Meanwhile at wall street...

Candidates are interviewing and 9x% of them will get rejected without mercy. Just like at Google and co.

Well, I hope they didn't think that a degree and 200k of debt would guarantee them a job anywhere.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#166

Post by anon_7523 »

discordianfish wrote: post #150
ed_balls wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd double my salary I still wouldn't move to Germany. Learning a new language is too big investment.

Not even talking about attracting talent but retaining it. That being said, in Berlin startups you don't need to speak german. You just need to be down with working for a shitty salary at a meaningless e-commerce project or copycat that is never intended to succeed.

I think you are essentially confusing "tech" with "web" (granted SV mostly does the same). Go to Southern Germany, if you want tech jobs, not Berlin.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#167

Post by anon_7523 »

d33 wrote: post #151
discordianfish wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is so German on so many levels. The reason those people aim for jobs in the UK or US is because there aren't good tech jobs in Germany. Arguing for mandatory German classes to 'lock in' talent somehow is simiarly uninspired as tech companies here. What about creating jobs that good people are willing to work at?

What makes this post German? It sounds convincing to me and I'm not German. Also, how would creating the jobs reduce the risk mentioned by anon_7523? Do you believe it's a bad idea to integrate the people you already provide with education, for free?

I guess, he is talking about the mindest, that you can fix everything with rules, without fixing the underlying problem (that I don't see in this case).

I would add calling something "typical German" is also typical German :)

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#168

Post by wslh »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #93
wslh wrote: post #82

My country, Argentina, does the same just in case you want to study here. The courses are obviously in Spanish. Postgraduate studies are paid.

Would you have more information? Definitely interested!

Information from the government here: http://elbno.cancilleria.gov.ar/en/node/5176

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#170

Post by sparkling »

anon_7523 wrote: post #91

My personal experience says, that it is not working out. I cannot tell for the whole country, but I do have some insights, since I am hiring and interviewing students and studied in one of the universities mentioned elsewhere in the thread. There is an English speaking Master program, consisting almost entirely of Pakistani and Indian students. Some facts about them: - They are not required to learn German, so they s…

I can confirm most of this, also talking from personal experience during my Bachelor and Masters studies. The majority of Non-EU students that come here seem to have a very hard time. I have no idea how they passed the German language test, most of them speak very little german, definitely not enough to fully understand a lecture held in German. Their prior education is not comparable to the required standard that native students must meet, so most of them are doing rather badly grade-wise.

When i talk to them, most of them state they wish to return to their home country once they finish their degree here. Needless to say, there are exceptions to the rule that hustle hard, excel and plan to stay in Germany once they finish.

In summary: Germany seems to get the B or C level bunch of students, while the A level students go to the US or the UK.

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