If ever there was a single shining example of how not to treat your customers, PayPal is it. Every year or two there is another story of a different arcane rule they have in place that is enforced with zero human consideration, oftentimes to deprive people access to their funds. They don't learn from their mistakes, nor acknowledge them in the first place. I can't think of another company that has drummed up such bad will in me (probably not even United.)
If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
241–250 of 396 posts
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
> something sane like a bank transfer FTFY. Zero fees, zero megacorps taking their cut, zero social graphs in the US growing a few extra tuples
in the US wire transfers cost about $30 per transfer, international cost about $50. If you're transferring to another customer in the same bank then they're free but I've never had that luxury. Were you referring to bank transfers to same bank customers? Because I've never heard of zero fees for bank transfers
Uk here - I can transfer amounts under 10k in under 2 hours without any fee, to any other uk bank. If I want to send more, it's about 20 pounds, and completed in a day. I can TransferWise money anywhere in Europe (not tested the US) for far less than those prices too.
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
transferwise is a pretty cheap option for sending money between different countries.
World First and any number of money transfer companies. I am not sure why there seems to be a constant mention of Transferwise on HN. They are not even close to the only companies doing what they do. It almost feels like they monitor HN to find an opportunity to recommend it. I don't have anything against them but it is odd how they are the only company that seems to get mentioned in stories like these.
I'm not affiliated with them but in my experience, they're cheap, convenient and reliable. Unlike say PayPal, or Western Union or moneygram.
I don't know of any other companies that do the same but I'll look into world first.
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure you're being serious. Do you carefully read the EULA or TOS of everything you pay for, line by line? Do you consult a lawyer about how to parse the legalese? If not, you've almost certainly also committed fraud of the same degree.
I think you're getting confused as you don't know about the fact that you can not signup to Paypal under the age of 18, unless you lie about your DOB. IE; if you're 17 and put your DOB into the Paypal signup process, it literally stops you from signing up. This person lied to get an account.
This is pure conjecture.
Unless you can prove that "it literally stop[ped] you from signing up" in 2007, then you have no credibility.
I remember signing up to PayPal in 2003 at the age of 14 without lying about my age. I did a lot of the things OP did, web dev, hosting costs, etc.
These days, I only use PP (all fresh accounts, for anyone at PayPal reading this with your ban hammer out, put it away won't you?) when I have to, and even then, through gritted teeth.
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the alternative?
Square Cash is absolutely fantastic, and extraordinarily easy to use. The mobile app is great. You can even send money to someone who doesn't even have a Square Cash account yet, by simply emailing them, cc'ing cash@square.com, and putting the dollar amount in the Subject: line. That's it. You can't beat it.
That sounds extremely easy to spoof. Was there more to it to confirm than that?
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
17 or 18 years old. It's an arbitrary distinction. I don't think many people would have an issue with anyone saying they were 18 to get an online account. This isn't the same as lying with the intent to cause harm. It would have been simpler for everyone if PayPal had given him an option to agree to new TOS now they've picked the discrepancy. Anyway, children can have bank accounts and own real estate and shares. Hav…
> It's an arbitrary distinction. Paypal can enforce the contract terms against people 18 years old or older. They can't (in england) against people aged 17 or younger. > children can have bank accounts Those accounts are restricted.
True and true. I meant to say that we -society- has arbitrarily selected age 18 for enforcement of contracts.
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apologies, I've commented a few times on this thread, I've managed to get most of the money, minus fees, back. Whilst there's no option in the modern UI, if you set your account back to use the classic UI, the refund button appears in the transaction details page, I refunded my friend and we're moving away from PP.
Why did you use Paypal rather than a bank transfer in the first place? Is your friend Mat from overseas? If so, can I recommend Transferwise for overseas payments.
PayPal is fantastic for transfers - when it works / as long as you're not hit by their "arbitrary bus".
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
PayPal added a forced arbitration clause in 2012[0]. It seems likely that most PayPal users did not opt out and are now unable to sue PayPal. [0] http://www.citizenvox.org/2012/10/15/opt-out-of-paypal%E2%80... Edited for minor formatting.
Doesn't matter. That clause is invalid in most countries.
That may well be the case but forced arbitration clauses are legal in the US. There have been several recent Supreme Court cases that upheld mandatory arbitration clauses.
Here are some citations:
"American Express Co., et al. v. Italian Colors Restaurant." Oyez, https://www.oyez.org/cases/2012/12-133. Accessed 29 Apr. 2017.
"AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion." Oyez, https://www.oyez.org/cases/2010/09-893. Accessed 29 Apr. 2017.
"The End of Class Actions?" Arizona Law Review, http://arizonalawreview.org/fitzpatrick/
Gilles, Myriam and Friedman, Gary (2012) "After Class: Aggregate Litigation in the Wake of "AT&T Mobility v Concepcion"," University of Chicago Law Review: Vol. 79 : Iss. 2 , Article 3. Available at: http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/uclrev/vol79/iss2/3
Edited to add the third and fourth citations.
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
It also makes you an infant and unable to contract for anything other than legal employment and "necessaries" (except with a next friend ). Language may change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but the upshot is that an account created while underage would not be legally valid, and transactions for anything other than necessaries become revocable pretty much at will.
> It also makes you an infant What?! No it doesn't. Infants are under one year of age. An older teenager has much more legal, financial, and criminal self-determination and responsibility than an infant does.
There's all kinds of weird and different rules/laws from country to country.
For example in my country (Germany): "Minors between 14 and 18 years are sentenced by juvenile justice. An adult between 18 and 21 years may still be sentenced by juvenile justice if considered mentally immature." [0]
This also means if the prosecution opens a court case against an individual that was less than 14 years of age at the time the crime was committed the criminal must be immediately dismissed although charges under private law can still be brought up (suing for damages etc.) and the parents can also possibly be sued for not supervising their children properly. [1]
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability
edit: formatting
Re: If you opened your PayPal account before you were 18, close it
#250If ever there was a single shining example of how not to treat your customers, PayPal is it. Every year or two there is another story of a different arcane rule they have in place that is enforced with zero human consideration, oftentimes to deprive people access to their funds. They don't learn from their mistakes, nor acknowledge them in the first place. I can't think of another company that has drummed up such bad…
Learn from their mistakes? I think the biggest lesson has been that you can scam a small percentage of users out of their money, without any real impact. There's been so many stories about paypal stealing people's money, but their core business is still going strong.