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The Boring Company [video]

boringcompany.com

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Re: The Boring Company [video]

#731

Post by jodrellblank »

pveierland wrote: post #82
loufe wrote: post #52

The costs of tunneling are like FAR more expensive than most think. Breaking, excavating, and supporting rock is slow, time and cost heavy, and precarious work. While this is an interesting concept, unless there are serious advances in rock boring techniques (personal opinion: there are none coming) this will never approach fruition. I would suggest anyone interested in further research look into the "Big Dig" of Bos…

Elon has stated that he believes it is possible to reduce tunnel creation speeds by 5 to 10 times, and that this is what they will work on doing: https://youtu.be/FPzpugrbwBE?t=120

possible to reduce tunnel creation speeds by 5 to 10 times

He's going to involve the government? :|

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#732

Post by danderino »

closeparen wrote: post #429
djsumdog wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still incredibly wasteful compared to a real subway. The amount of people a real mass transit system can move is orders of magnitude above tons if individual little cars: http://penguindreams.org/blog/self-driving-cars-will-not-sol... ..not to mention all the energy required to move each of those vehicles compared to a train that can move hundreds of more people in a similar space. Americans need to get over all…

>It's still incredibly wasteful compared to a real subway. Because real subways have miserable sardine-can standing room conditions during commute times. Public transit is dead in the water in the US because its advocates use terms like "incredibly wasteful" to describe making systems anywhere near as comfortable as private cars. For most people, the most comfortable chair they own is their driver seat. For many, the…

Saying we shouldn't be wasting a ton of resources on private cars is a "drastic reduction in the quality of our lives"?

Quite frankly, I would much prefer to not have the costs and issues of owning a private vehicle.

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#733

Post by losteric »

mozumder wrote: post #604
mcbutterbunz wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain how he messed this one up?

Because you are now more dependent on private cars for transport. Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station & shopping center where you can pick up a light rail to the closest subway station, where you take the express train downtown to the high-speed rail station, where you take that to visit the next state for the day? No cars, and you can sit and read…

Um, what? Tunneling costs are blocking​ mass transit in high-density regions.

Light rail and subways are key to effective public transportation and affordable connected cities. Buses are best for last-minute/first-mile transport.

Commoditization of tunnel boring technology around a couple standard sizes for any soil condition would radically reduce subway construction costs around the nation. That same technology could be leveraged for commercial transportation as well.

I strongly suspect "tunnels for cars" is just marketing. Elon is known for doing his research, and the research shows that traffic is reduced by getting people off the road... Traffic is the equilibrium of convenience and discomfort, adding roads just puts more people on the road.

Making mass transportation more convenient and cheap is vital to reducing traffic... the other piece is zoning for high density to support mass transportation.

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#734

Post by taway_1212 »

sigi45 wrote: post #684
Xcelerate wrote: post #377

It's amazing to me the amount of negativity directed toward his projects and the millions of reasons people give for why they "won't work" (not necessarily on HN, but at least on general news websites). I'm starting to believe the only difference between those who start their own companies and those who don't is that the latter convinces themselves that it is impossible, never builds anything, and from their own lack…

There is often enough a clear understanding why something is stupid. Freaking solar roadways got 2 Million and more. A City payed them 500k to install that stuff. It is not hard to calculate the stupidity of this. Especially of a couple who is doing this in a garage. There is a reason why big companies are not doing it. It has to make sense and money. This video above looks nice but if you think just a step back, it…

You can't have cars driving at 200 km/h on city streets.

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#735

Post by danderino »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #333

I think there is nothing more boring than reading a bunch of people who never propose anything point out flaws. You all sound like Balmer. This is a CONCEPT!! Elon is THINKING you all are pointing, laughing and adding no value to the conversation of "What comes next?" If your idea is "the metro works", a 150 year old system, then this video is not for you. To the video, I like the concept of combining public and priv…

"I think there is nothing more boring than reading a bunch of people who never propose anything point out flaws."

This just isn't a very rational statement.

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#736

Post by danderino »

SEJeff wrote: post #174
rhino369 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk could also be bullshitting to help get funding to create a boring machine that is just twice as good as what we have now. That would be a very profitable company and would reduce subway costs, etc. Musk's a sales technique to promise the moon (Mars really) and then use the cash to build a revolutionary but realistic company. SpaceX isn't going to colonize mars, but its putting satellites in orbit.

People said moving phonebooks to the internet was stupid. Then he founded Zip2. People said moving banking to the internet was stupid/insane. Then he founded x.com which merged with and became what we now know as Paypal. People said he couldn't possibly make rockets from scratch that go to space. Then he did it. People also said he wouldn't land rockets on boats. Then he did it. Then they said he would never refly a…

There's people who will think any issue is stupid, but by no mean did the vast majority of people think those ideas were stupid. I particularly don't recall anyone saying reusable rockets were a bad idea.

And X.Com didn't become Paypal. Paypal became Paypal. Paypal was already developed before the merger and it was not Musk's idea.

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#737

Post by osdiab »

EmployedRussian wrote: post #497
linkregister wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to remove people from their homes for the greater good with little repercussion I think you underestimate how poorly compensated the relocated people are. Unless it's an outcome of "Weird China" reporting, which is very possible, I've seen plenty of reports of people being forced out of their houses in exchange for flats with smaller floor space and property in an inferior location. I'm not saying what…

I think you are in violent agreement with the parent post: "ability to remove people ... with little repercussion" literally means: they (authorities) can order people move, and it costs them (authorities) little or nothing at all. It costs the moved people a great deal, but the government doesn't care.

Exactly, thanks for clarifying :)

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#738

Post by osdiab »

Retric wrote: post #660
tigershark wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean a shitty managed train system, right? In London at peak time there is one train every two minutes, in Moscow one per minute. One train every 5 minutes is the off peak frequency in London when you are actually complaining that you are waiting too long.

At the peak times for the most used stations there is a car that frequently sure, but if use look at the overall system they don't send anywhere close to 60 * 24 = 1440 trains past every station in each direction per day. Further trains going to different stations often share the same track because you need more throughput in the city center than at the furthest stations. But, just because the edge stations get less…

The max throughout is the number that we should care about - they provide fewer cars per minute not because they're physically incapable of doing it, just because there isn't demand. And it would be the same in a car-centric situation as well - lower throughput in off hours.

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#739

Post by osdiab »

Retric wrote: post #502
osdiab wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of people that can fit in 1 car is roughly maxes out at 4-7 people, depending on the car. There needs to be enough spacing between each car so that in the case of a failure, cars have space to brake to a stop without catapulting the people in it, or causing them to become overly nauseous. So there's going to be a decent amounnt of spacing between each car. The number of people that can fit on 1 bus can hit…

A well managed train system can manage 1 car per line per 5 minutes. 2000 * 60 / 5 = 24,000 people per hour. Highways can handle 2,000 - 2200 vehicles per lane or so at the low end 1/12 but that's very much an edge case. Most lines are closer to one train every 20 minutes and you can average 3 people per car which makes them equivalent. The real issue is not highways, but what happens when people try and get off or o…

It's less of an edge case than you may think, given solo ridership numbers here in the USA. 75% commute alone.

https://www.census.gov/hhes/commuting/files/2014/acs-32.pdf

Re: The Boring Company [video]

#740

Post by rinon »

wonderwonder wrote: post #712
billiam wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what rural areas don't have? Traffic. I love the way that Musk hacks the American economy, government subsidies, value system, marketing engine, and the capacity of the public to fall for bullshit, because that is how truly new things get made in this country. But this amusing semi-joke is just reflective of the fact that LA proves car-based transport doesn't scale, no matter who is driving. Mass transit is the…

you need a car unless your life plan is just to limit yourself to only urban areas. If you ever want to leave the urban area you will need a car. If I have my own car, even if there is public transportation I will likely take my own car for the convenience of it being my own space. I am not arguing against the need for mass transport but I see no reason we cant have both.

Why not rent a car when you want to go on trips outside of urban areas? Seems far cheaper if you can actually get away without a care in the city.
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