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Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

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Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#61

Post by myegorov »

aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

A former civil (structural) engineer here. I'm not aware of any undergrad engineering programs at public universities in Germany run in English. Assuming you know German, I would definitely opt for a degree in Germany provided that you can cover the living expenses, which are slightly lower in Germany. You won't have access to US financial aid as an independent student in Germany. Not sure about other branches of engineering, but for Civil I wouldn't worry about accreditation, more on that below. Be aware that a diploma from a typical US high school is not sufficient to gain entry directly into a German university/technical school. I think high school + 1 year of college __is__ sufficient. That also lets you brush up on your German. Rules may be different for IB diploma etc.

A degree from Germany will not be ABET-accredited.[1] Licensure requirements for engineers differ by state. For CA, I believe it only affects the number of years of professional experience required before you can take the PE exam (1 year for ABET-accredited vs 4 years for non-accredited, or something like that).[2] I don't think accreditation matters for EIT.[3] In general, unless you intend to open your own practice asap, how quickly you become a licensed engineer is not the top priority. Everyone gets there, a bit sooner with an accredited Master's (typically 1 year degree), or later without one.

[1] http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx [2] http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/flowchart_for_pe.pdf [3] http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/eit_lsitapp.shtml

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#62

Post by fkistner »

Boothroid wrote: post #47
yardie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the top universities in the US are effectively free. The pool of students they get to choose from would enter with a basket of scholarship money to the point they wouldn't have to pay. The other group is so wealthy the price of tuition is the cost of a new luxury car, every year. Effectively a single percentage expense. Germany doesn't have to make their schools to compete free because the schools they compet…

I seriously doubt the average Ivy League/Oxbridge aspirant would ever consider a Germany university as an alternative. Below these few elite universities you have another upper tier which in the UK would be Imperial/UCL/Durham etc. (although some departments in this supposedly lower tier are superior to the top tier). Below that you have another tier, and looking at this tier in the global rankings you are starting t…

I think there is a fault in your argument. Not all students, use global rankings to make up their minds. It's a matter of perspective. I am fairly confident that most top 5% European students have not considered applying to an Ivy League school or any American university for that matter. Your claim that German universities mainly attract mediocre students is completely unfounded.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#63

Post by MarkMc »

aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

I don't think there are any German undergraduate programs that are entirely in English - you will most like need to learn German to CEF level C1 to pass the German university entrance exam (Feststellungsprüfung).

This is a useful website to determine whether your high school qualifications are enough to attend a German university: https://www.uni-assist.de/zulassungsvoraussetzungen/index.ph...

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#64

Post by berndsf »

MarkMc wrote: post #63
aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

I don't think there are any German undergraduate programs that are entirely in English - you will most like need to learn German to CEF level C1 to pass the German university entrance exam (Feststellungsprüfung). This is a useful website to determine whether your high school qualifications are enough to attend a German university: https://www.uni-assist.de/zulassungsvoraussetzungen/index.ph...

https://www.topuniversities.com/where-to-study/europe/german...

There definitely are. I studied entirely in English at TU Darmstadt for example (that was in 2004). They also offered free German classes in a preparatory program back then.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#66

Post by [deleted] »

fkistner wrote: post #50
aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

This search tool of the German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD) might help you find a suitable program: https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/internationa...

[deleted]

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#67

Post by myegorov »

berndsf wrote: post #64
MarkMc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are any German undergraduate programs that are entirely in English - you will most like need to learn German to CEF level C1 to pass the German university entrance exam (Feststellungsprüfung). This is a useful website to determine whether your high school qualifications are enough to attend a German university: https://www.uni-assist.de/zulassungsvoraussetzungen/index.ph...

https://www.topuniversities.com/where-to-study/europe/german... There definitely are. I studied entirely in English at TU Darmstadt for example (that was in 2004). They also offered free German classes in a preparatory program back then.

Can you name an undergraduate program in an Engineering/computer science related field conducted entirely in English? At TU Darmstadt or any other public school? I very much suspect that this is not an option if your intent is to get a degree. This is only an option for US undergrads on a study abroad supported by their home schools or for Master's students.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#68

Post by mmarx »

berndsf wrote: post #46
aphextron wrote: post #23

Should I study engineering in Germany? I'm looking at undergrad programs in California right now and the numbers don't add up for me. Not just tuition, but cost of living as a full time student as well. I also feel like it would be much easier for me (a non-traditional student) to get into a better university over there, as they pretty much just look at your test scores. Not all this GPA/extra-curricular "well rounde…

There definitely also are programs exclusively in English. Many however are rather partly in English with more option for a Masters degree. I'd check the programs at TU Munich in particular. Karlsruhe, Aachen, Darmstadt are also worth considering albeit less attractive places to live in. All degrees are accredited. My major/minor B.Sc. degree was recognized as a dual major in the US.

> Karlsruhe, Aachen, Darmstadt are also worth considering albeit less attractive places to live in.

They are also considerably less expensive places to live in.

Re: Why Germany Educates International Students for Free

#69

Post by microtonal »

erikb wrote: post #54
microtonal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work as a researcher in a German university and also have 4h per week teaching obligation. Our program is international and in English, all students are treated equally. A significant part of the teaching staff is also not from Germany. I have never encountered the practices that you mention. If one of my students would describe the problems you mentioned (especially exploitation by university staff) I would encour…

Agreed. Not all universities will be like this bad. But I think to some degree it will happen everywhere. Complaining is something I also always suggested, but now that I've experienced real life outside school/university for some time I'm not sure about that any more. For instance, you have a lot of rights here, but I found in my own experience that you only have the rights you know you have and you know how to enfo…

For instance, you have a lot of rights here, but I found in my own experience that you only have the rights you know you have and you know how to enforce.

That is definitely true, for foreigners this starts at an even more basic level - all the relevant regulations are written in (bureaucratic) German. So, even if you want to read up on your rights, it can be difficult, unless you have near-native reading comprehension.

Luckily, there seem to be positive changes in this area. E.g. our faculty is now translating the exam regulations for English programs.

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